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JFK Assassination: What do you think ?

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by 36thID, Nov 24, 2012.

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  1. 36thID

    36thID Member

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    It's 49 years later and this event had a lasting impact upon me. I was a kid that was almost 9 years old. I was home sick that day and watched it live.

    There is so much that needs to come out about this dark day, but from what I understand the "real" files on this won't be released until I'm long gone...

    It's obvious that there was no way the assassination happened as the bogus Warren Report stated. This video has always confirmed 2 front shots. Hell, the second shot almost hit Jackie Kennedy in the left forehead !

    I know we have some true firearms experts here and I would like to hear their opinion about ballistics. How could they say it came from Oswald, from behind ?

    We also have some history experts here and would like to hear their thoughts about.... Who Did It ?

    VERY GRAPHIC:
    JFK Assassination Digitally Remastered - StumbleUpon
     
  2. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Take a milk jug full of water or gel, stand it on a post and shoot it with a rifle. Surprisingly, that jug will fall towards you rather than away from you - towards the source of the shot. That seems to defy the laws of physics, but in fact as the slug travels into the fluid it creates a wave that suddenly bursts out the rear of the jug. This phenomena has recently been tagged the "jet effect" and that's exactly why Kennedy's head jerks to the rear (towards Oswald) as the bullet strikes. It fact, it proves beyond any doubt that Kennedy was shot from the rear (by Oswald).

    Don't take my word for it. Fill up a jug or pumpkin with water or jello, shoot it with a medium to high velocity rifle and see for yourself. The object will jump towards the source of the shot, not away from it.

    The people who write these endless conspiracy books must know this, but as long as people keep buying them they'll keep misleading you.
     
  3. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I think he was shot twice from the rear by a single assassin that was in the Texas Book Despositiry.
     
  4. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member Patron  

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    For my money EVERY American President shot or assinated was attack by a single gunman. Lincoln. Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy, Ford, Reagan et all. Period
     
  5. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    That was one patient and long lived assassin ! :D

    sorry.
     
  6. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

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    The Comedian did it, of course.
     
  7. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    One guy, one rifle and a couple of lucky shots.........I think we, as Americans, have a hard time believing that the simple explanation is the correct one; there does not have to be a grand conspiracy surrounding every tragic occurence.
     
  8. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    Guys, on a website devoted to history, and with SOURCED comments at a premium, you'all dismiss this obvious attempt to pull the wool over your eyes with OPINIONS?

    Read something on the this murder. It will open your eyes. I have two copies of Mr. Jim Garrison's book, "On The Trail of The Assassins". It's a compelling read, and once you have exposed yourself to this literature alone, you can't really go back and take the Warren Commision et al seriously.

    Lee Harvey Oswald was no loner. He was employed by both the FBI AND the Central Intelligence Agency. He had a VERY high security clearance, and on the day of the killing, did not fire a rifle of any description or a pistol. Nitrate testing proved that one. Oswald worked for an former FBI man, Guy Bannister, in concert with another man deeply connected with the killing, one David Ferrie, and his 'boss' Clay Laverne Shaw. All three of these individuals were in the pay of the CIA, and managed to 'sheepdip' Mr Oswald into the incarnation that the United states Government tried to portray him as.

    What other than a government agent with the highest security clearence could hand in his passport to the US Embassy, defect to the Soviet Union, be granted asylum and found a job in a government radio factory in Minsk, meet the daughter of a KGB Colonel, (who thought he spoke Russian well enough to convice her that he was Russian), and take his sweetheart home to the US with more money supplied by the US government. On arrival, The State Department made not one noise or check upon his return, granting him a new passprt and one for Marina with no questions.

    When serving in the US Marines, Oswald was a POOR shot at best, and a joke among his fellow classmates for the sheer number of misses he garnered at the rifle range. When serving in Japan, Lee worked in the photographic development lab of the US Aif Force's Atsugi Airbase, the origin and point of return for EVERY U-2 spy mission flown over the SU.

    Oswald could speak Spanish almost as well as he could Russian, and when the US Marines tested him, they complained that Lee, "got more words wrong than he did right" in an exam for the Russian language. Only Intelligence trainees were schooled in the Russian language, and of the 800 word in the test Oswald gotover 400 wrong. Garrison said that this was quite an impressive performance for someone who had only studied Russian for a short time. He also commented that the crtiicism was unfounded, and that he was reminded of an old joke about a man who thinks his dog is not very smart because his owner can beat him 3 games out of 5 in chess. Garrison also comments that a Marine in Japan would have about as much use for the Russian language as a cat would have for pajamas.

    Garrison was a patriot, and as district attorney of New Orleans, he stumbled upon David Ferrie, taking a very suspicious trip to Dallas to "Go ice skating." Witnesses at the rink remember Ferrie putting no skates on, and spending all his time at the rink making calls on the public patphone.

    I'm not going to give it all away here, but put simply, if you believe the government view on this one, then you are firmly barking up the wrong tree. There is no reason NOT to suppose that Kennedy was killed by CIA operatives simply for attempting to put into action National Security Memo 263, stating for all to hear that the functions of the CIA were to be 'submerged' into other areas of government and defense departments. Colonel Fletcher Prouty stated that the "consternation" that this document caused in the days leading up to Nov 22nd, 1963 was unprecedented. These guys fought back, and in the only way they knew how, by publically executing their Commander in Chief, and covering it up very, VERY crudely, almost as crude as the killing itself.

    As I say, do some reading before giving an 'opinion' on this one. There are lots of books, and most of them are TRIPE. But Garrison's book is the 'real deal' as they say in Texas. And it will astonish you with the breadth of understanding Garrison and staffers achieved in the short space of time they worked on this. Suffice to say, they did not move fast enough to subpeona David Ferrie before he too was wiped out, and by the time of the Clay Shaw trial, all the material witnesses were DEAD.

    Clay Shaw, director of the New Orleans International Trade Mart, was a contract employee of the CIA, as stated in 1971 by Richard Helms, former Director of the Central Intelligence agency.

    If that was known at his trial,( it was suppressed), likely the verdict would have been quite different. But, as David Ferrie said, "The Agency plays for keeps...."

    I am still a great fan of the United Styates and it's people. But by God, it doesn't make me walk around making excuses for crude actions such as this one.
     
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  9. 36thID

    36thID Member

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    Well I'd say I have the minority opinion here !

    As long as I live, I will believe this was a hit. I'm really not a conspiracy preacher, but 2 things have always bothered me.

    I can understand that a Hail Mary shot could find it's target. But 2 out of 3 Hail Mary shots ? Bolt action....
    Those that enjoy hunting can understand the adrenaline rush of having "your" shot. That sudden rush of having to pull the trigger and take your shot after stalking or laying in wait. It can be intense.... Now imagine you're Oswald, you're perched and have been waiting in anticipation to change history in a dramatic way. Your target was a moving JFK, with a bolt action. Then your first shot wasn't clean. The pressure and stress to meet his objective would of been incredible. From the few interviews of Oswald, I don't see a man capable of such pressure. Based on his past actions to me he seems like a wanna be. To his benefit, he did have Marine training !

    Also, the way history played out from the early 1960's until around 1975. It was chaotic.... Assassinations, deportations, covert actions by assorted public and private individuals and groups. Allen Dulles being involved with some of these actions AND being involved with the Warren Report, raises sooo many red flags for me.

    Regardless, This is only my opinion. I asked for and got your opinions. Many Thanks !
     
  10. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    Steve, that Book Depository window on the sixth floor has a view onto the main street below that offered a ZERO DELECTION shot.

    A lone assassin would have looked no further.

    There was only one reason not to take those shots from that window, and wait for the car to drive right past your perch and be moving away from you before you open fire.

    And that one reason? That you weren't the only person setting out to hit Kennedy that day, and you were following orders to shoot when the limosine reached the agreed upon area or "Kill zone".

    Lee Harvey Oswald has to be the most maligned and misunderstood 'bad guy' sice I don't know when.

    As I say, take a good look at 'Big' Jim Garrison's book.....the only thing wrong with it is that Garrison's work on this 'Crime of the Century' was not followed up as it should have been. And that shook Garrison to the core, raised as he was to love his country and to TRUST the powers that be that ran it.
     
  11. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    The "Jet Effect" is a misnomer. The Warren Commission were trying to get people to ignore the sight of their own eyes. It doesn't matter where the bullets came from, the very fact that there WERE two gunmen, or more, is proof enough, and the "House Select Committee on Assassinations" stated this quite clearly.

    Ignore the Warren Commission. The House Select committee has already rendered the findings of the Warren Report obselete.

    The fact that you guys are still clinging to it for dear life is a testament to the fact that you will, presumably, believe ANYTHING that governments tell you.

    And what Dallas resident, or Texan, wants to believe otherwise? None of them, because it exposes Dalls and the State of Texas as the headquarters for "Rednecks" of the country.

    November 22nd 1963 was a day of SHAME for Dallas, for Texas as a state, and for the Vice-President from Texas that took over from Kennedy, Lyndon Baines Johnson.

    None of these people could afford to have the record say any different. Texans should be up in arms that their own President was killed in their state and capital city. The fact that they still gloss over it is a continueing source of SHAME for Dallas, for Texas, and for the good residents who live there.
     
  12. scipio

    scipio Member

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    So do foreigners - I remember it all very vividly but what shocked me more was the execution of Oswald by Jack Ruby right in front of our eyes! Definitely only one gun man but why - another out-of-control gunman wanting to post his name in the history books?
     
  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    BTW, it was part of the president´s brain that Jackie was reaching out for on the trunk of the limo. And probably the rest of the president´s occipital skull. Weird bullet(s).
     
  14. The_Historian

    The_Historian Pillboxologist Patron  

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    Think he was shot by an American.;)
    British PM Spencer Perceval and John Lennon were both shot by lunatics. It doesn't always have to be a "conspiracy" just because it was unexpected.
     
  15. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member Patron  

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    HOGWASH!

    P.S. The capitol of Texas is Austin, NOT Dallas.
     
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  16. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    Thanks ol'boy....needed correction there!
     
  17. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    Proove Garrison incorrect then. Try as he did to subpeona Lee Oswalds INCOME TAX records, showing who this man was listed for, payroll wise. Garrison was unsuccessful, "The first time," he said, "my office was refused a tax statement from anyone."

    Lee Oswald definately wasn't a lone nut. No doubt about it. He was no Marxist either. Clay Shaw, Guy Bannister, and David Ferrie did not associate with Communists....poor form for cold warriors, poor form for Agency people too.
     
  18. The_Historian

    The_Historian Pillboxologist Patron  

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    Garrison isn't necessarily regarded as an infallible source on the subject, since he obtained evidence by controversial methods. His main case against Clayton Shaw came from evidence obtained from Perry Russo partly under hypnosis, and partly after being given Sodium Pentathol. Several people also claim to have been threatened.
    He also had a history of accusing public figures of wrongdoing. He comes across as someone with an axe to grind.
     
  19. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    Hey Belasar....

    Ask your local Dallas Sherrif who, exactly, in their opinion, killed Officer J.D. Tippett of the Dallas Police Department.

    It most certainly was NOT Lee Harvey Oswald. Ask further why the attempted assassination of Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was perpetrated, and by whom? And, further, why do the Dallas Police claim to this day that Sheriff Craig was not present at the offices of Dallas and on the scene of the Kennedy killing, when Garrison produced photographs clearly demonstrating Roger's presence on the day?

    Further, lets get to the point and ask them to explain the presense of one Jack Rubenstein in their offices, fielding a question from the media of the name of the "Committee" that Lee Oswald was handing out pamphlets for, (Fair Play For Cuba). Lee Oswald was the only known member of "Fair Play for Cuba", and early sheets he handed out were even stamped with Guy Bannister's name and office address, (544 Camp St). Not bad for people claiming never to have met Oswald before.

    Lastly, ask that same damned Police Department of yours why they let the same Mr. Rubenstein into the basement of the same Police Station, and stood back like idiots while Jack ran forward and shot dead the most important single prisoner in custody in the nation at the time?

    When we can get satisfactory answers to all of the above that Garrison has asked them in the past, we may be just a little closer to the real role of the Dallas Police Department in the events of 22nd November, 1963.
     
  20. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    He was fishing. No case, so troll about for anything that might lead to something he could use.
    He was a nut, plain and simple.
     
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