Kar98k vs Mosin Nagant

Back to the question at hand. I for one prefer the Mauser Kar98.

Both rifles are excellent weapons, however the quality of the craftsmanship is superior in the Mauser then the Mosin. The Kar98's bolt is surprisingly simpler then the Mosin's, and if maintained properly, is silk smooth to cycle. While the Mosin's bolt which is surprisingly complex by Soviet standards, tends to stick, mostly because of it's very blocky design and complexity of design. Loading is also alot smoother with the Kar98 then the Mosin, The rimless 7.92mm glide right into the staggered mag. The rimmed 7.62X54R the Mosin uses, even with the straight mag, Loading is somewhat tricky. The main advantage to the Mosin was it's robust design, even in the coldest winter it will work. And it's ability to use even the poorest quality ammunition and still digest it.

Both are excellent rifles, you won't go wrong with either of them. However overall the Kar98 has the edge.

 

I wouldn't debate any of your points which I think are all excellent. I would add though that the Soviets were in reality using Zeiss optics, as they had purchased the plant/rights (don't recall the details) to manufacture themselves. This is from Adrian Gilberts Sniper:

I did read somewhere that at peak production, these Soviet scopes were being manufactured at 12 different plants and I suppose that would bring into question what quality and consistency was being produced. I suppose that would be a fair question to ask of German production as well, as the war dragged on.

 

Good post.

 

DocCasualty,

Yes the Soviets did purchase a very large amount of German scopes just before the war, and they license produced some as-well. The problem with the ones produced under license however was that the Soviets didn't possess the precision instruments & tools to manufacture lenses of the same quality as the Germans could, and thus the Soviet scopes never even approached the same quality as those manufactured in Germany.

The Soviets later went on to produce the PU series of scopes instead, incorperating easy to use height & windage screws allowing for quicker zeroing in. The optics were still nothing to yell hurray about though, suffering distortion at the edges and a narrow field of view. But they did the job they were intended to do sufficiently well.

 

My memory is that the Germans sold not just the liscence but also the machine tools to the Russians because Zeiss was upgrading the equipment of their own factory.

 

No, the Soviets recieved a large number of scopes from the Germans in 1939 as part of a trade agreement. They then started copying the scopes as best they could and acquired a license for doing so. The scopes were however too difficult to manufacture for the Soviet industry and thus they began designing their own scopes, which resulted in the PU series.

 

I own both of these rifles and have put about 2,000 rounds through my M91/30 and M44, and about 1,000 through my K98. Though the Mauser has an infinitely better bolt and safety, and is much more accurate, I find the sights to be a bit less combat-friendly. Granted, they are more precise, but it takes a bit longer to centre the rear and fore sights, and at close range it's tough to adjust for the low shots (6 inches below point of aim at 25 yds). When I take time and shoot for minute of angle readings, I shoot better with the Mauser, but when doing quick shots at long range, I hit far better with the 91/30.

Though, the clunkiness of the Mosin Nagant bolt, and it's forward placement, would make me choose the K98 hands down. This isn't to say it's leagues above the Mosin Nagant, however, like most people tend to think. In urban fighting, an M44 would definitely outperform a K98.

My decision also stands true with sniper rifles. The 2 stage trigger of the Mauser allows much greater accuracy than the creeping Mosin trigger, and a Zeiss 6x scope makes more sense than a PU 3.5x with a floating reticle.

In terms of use today, however, I love the Mosin Nagant just because the ammo is half the price.

 

I own one of each and I like the Mauser better, hence forth my name ha, any way.

Mauser
1. more accurite
2.Bigger calliber
3. cheap surplus(for both I guess)
4. the Americans, the czechs, the hungarians, the yugos, the romainians, the japinies,the chinies, and many many more copied it (only one kind of Mosin)

Mosin Nagant
1. cheap surplus ammo
2. for 200 dollars you can have a rifle and 440 rounds
3. mini flame thrower near dusk
4.5'4 rifle(i don't know if thats a ood or bad thing)

 

In reality the Mosin is more accurate if it is a good quality.(Not because of the systen but the barrel lenght.)
As a sniper it's Mosin>K98.As a battle rifle K98>Mosin because it's shorter and the weight is a little bit lower.

 

It is really hard to say. Kar-98 did have much better iron sights and the bolt action was faster to manipulate. I accuracy varries from rifle to rifle and some picked Mossin's might have been superior to Kar-98 and vice versa. From what I have recalled from tank net, the Germans did sell the entire Old Zeiss machine tools to the Russians. It might have been Vasiliy Fofanov or Bojan and they are very authoritative.

 

I read the Russian scopes were superior + the longer barrel lenght gives an accuracy advantage.But the K98s were most of time good quality while the Mosin could be very poor.
But in the end you need to be very good before it really matters.

 

It would be nice if you can give me a source? The other claim was made on tank net, IIRC by Vasiliy Fofanov.

 

According to Vic Thomas one of the expert researchers on Mosin rifles (mosinnagant.net) The Soviets only recieved Zeiss scopes from Germany in the mid 1920's along with machinery,In the early 30's the Soviets came up with their design the focus adjustable PE,in 1935 the PEM,in 1940 the PU,Overall about 275,250 M91/30 sniper rifles were built.
Here is a photo of Soviet snipers armed with Mosin rifles fitted with German optics in the 1920s

 

I've not shot the K98, but I do have some experience with a Yugo M48 - they're pretty close, right?

Only M-N I'm familiar with is an M44. The safety sucks, and the trigger creeps forever. Replaced the sights with Mojo sights - or sort of peep - and took a nice 7 pointer last year. The load I used was a Wolf 200gr softpoint; it did the trick.

I much prefer the a Marlin 30-30 for deer - better trigger, lighter, slimmer, trim Nikon scope - but the Mosin would do for Nazis, and deer before it gets too dim...

 

I have to say the Mosin Naget. While the 98k may have been more lethal or whatever, the Mosin Nagets durability astounded me. Red Army soldiers carrying them through the mud and dirt and freezinf temperatures and still, for the most part, getting them to operate and do their job.
Mosin Naget all the way.

 

Speaking of choosing the k98k, besides the web sites that offer Russian Captured k98k's, can anyone tell me of web sites that offer the k98k's in good to vg condition.? I've searched the web and have basically come up empty.

In addition, how do the k98k's manufactured in Serbia/Yugoslavia, circa 1940's rate with ones manufactured in Germany?

 

You might have some luck here.

See:

Collecting and Shooting the German Mauser 98k (Karabiner 98k) - HISTORY

and on that site goto:

Surplusrifleforum.com • Index page

if you join up on that forum you might be able to get all the information you desire on the Mauser 98k, as to where to buy, which models were "best" etc..

 

If you are looking for something just to shoot, Mitchell's offers some good guns at good prices. When I get taxes back this year I'm going to be picking up another one from a friend, who bought it at a Dunham's. It's not a collector's model but it'll shoot the lights out.

 

For me I have to say the Mauser wins, I don't know why it just seems a more sturdy gun, and like has been said about the bolt action, the Mosin Nagant falls short.

 

The mosin Nagant is old fation compaired to the Mauser, a quick thing I notice was that the bolt handle is actually a locking lug. but my favorite thing is the "saftey" ha, try getting that off in the middle of combat.

Hence fourth the name i'm going to pick Mauser, yes the accuracy and power is about equal but the mauser was the base of which most bolt actions where made, the Springfield 1903 is all but an exact copy, and just look at all the variations, the Germans, yugos, czechs, hungarians, brazilians, swiss, and many more. (only one mosin)

Still if I had to equiped an army i would chose mosin, because its just as reliable (if loaded correctly) as a mauser and for 200 dollars you can have a useable piece of history and 440 rounds of ammo

but for fun I still pick Mauser