Little Stalingrad

Ortona, is anyone familiar with this battle?
December 1943 The Canadian First Infantry Div attacks the city of Ortona and finds it defended by german paratroop division. The battle was long and bloody but resulted in a Canadian victory. During the battle the Canadians became expert at house to house fighting, inventing something called mouseholeing. They would fire a PIAT from on house into the wall of another making a large hole, then they would all rush through and clear the building. In this manner whole blocks could be cleared without exposing themselves to enemy sniper fire. anyway just thought I'd bring it up as I find the battle, and the larger Italian Campaign facinating

 

Billy :

do you have references on this battle(s) via books of some sort ? I have heard that the forces of both sides were hit awfully hard and many British tanks were destroyed by Fallschirm anti-tank units.
If you have a couple of titels to share I would be most thankful.

E

 

Im not very familiar with this battle, but would like to know more. Im as Erich is, am interested in knowing some book titles.

 

Billy, Carl:

There are some nice sites off of Yahoo search engine, although they tend to disagree as to what weapon was used to puch holes in the walls of the town. From bazookas, piat's and 6 pounder AT guns.....
Billy any book titels yet ?

Erich

 

Thanks Erich, I will check that out after I get back from eating a late lunch or early dinner at the Cracker Barrel.

 

Carl , looks like the Canadian side is pretty well covered from these on-line sites. But I see nothing for the 1st Fallschirm Division. Guess I'll have to do some serous digging later.

E

 

A reply to my reply......eeeeegads !

On December 4 the British and Canadians attacked and threatened to take the town of Ortona and punch their way through the "Gustav Line." There was no German troops available to stop the Allies as they approached Ortona.
At this critical moment Oberst Heilmann, commander of FJR 3, was ordered to counterattack as quickly as possible and take possession of Ortona and VillaGrande. The II Abteilung(Hauptmann Liebscher) rushed toward Ortona and did, indeed, take the town. On December 17th, they were reinforced by the Ist Abteilung(Maj. Böhmler). Then the entire 1st Parachute Division was moved into the Ortona area as the Allies were attacking and closing in on Ortona.(FJR 1,3,4). During the next few days the paratroops were thrown into one of the fiercest battles of their existence....this year there would not be a peacful Christmas! The paratroopers were forced to defend each house and street, but again, could not stop the Allies. There was a real threat that the Allies could cut off Ortona and encircle the entire 1st Parachute Division, thus on December 28, the Germans were forced to retreat to safety behind the Gustav Line. FJR 3 took a new position north of Ortona and was able to halt Montgomery's offensive on the eastern coast of Italy preventing them from breaking throughthe main defense line........printed from R.J. Benders volume 2 FJR 3 book/via Klaus Peters.

E

 

Erich, I live in Central Point, right down the road from you, and I was wondering if your a wargamer? I used to play wargames with Rich Gagliosso and his friend Scott in Grants Pass, if you know them.

 

OK this is what I have in my psoession at the moment
"The D Day Dodgers" [The Candians In Italy 1943-1945] by the late great Daniel D. Danocks
"The Regiment" by Farley Mowat This book gives a general overview of the battle but concentrates on the prequel battle the crossing of The Moro river by The Hastings and Prince Edward Regt, aka the Hasty Pees.
The battle for the city proper began on Dec 20th when it was assaulted by the Lofal Eddies assited by Shermans of the Three Rivers Regt Most of the First Inf regt was eventually involved before the city was declared secured on Dec 28th.
American historian Robert Wallace stated:
"In Ortona the Canadians became,among the allied soldiers, the acknowleged masters of house to house fighting"
The Canadians gained a rugged respect for the Falschrimjager soldiers. a survivor after the battle was asked if he had to do it all over again what troops would he like to support the Canadian attack, he answered , german paratroops

 

Erich thanks. Guess what, I MIGHT be able to get Wehrmacht master sniper (257 kills) Sepp Allerberger info here soon after all. I now have his address and are planning a nice letter to see what he thinks on this matter.

Sadly to say though, the other Wehrmacht master sniper, Matthias Hetzenauer (345 kills) I wanted to do an "interview" with, he is still alive but is very ill, and most likely would not reply. This would be distasteful, if I did ask him for anything.

Some info though on Sepp: The OdR says he IS an RKT, BUT the stick in the mud is: that he isnt recognized as one nor are quite a few Regimental, Brigade and Divisional Commanders. This is because the laws have changed, that are how and why they were to recieve the Knights Cross.

To me though, since the man WAS presented with the award--HE IS AN RKT.

 

Carl, Billy and Talleyrand

I cannot believe that Sepp is not listed as a RK winner. When you write him could you please ask for a signed autogrpah for me. I send you some dosh to take care of it if he wants a little ?? sounds like a Kühl idea to have his version of what it was like to stalk around on the OST front......whew ! no thanks ! Billy, thanks for those titels, it's something to look for this fall. I am hopeful I can find something else on the FJR 3 to have an overall balance of the battle. I'll keep checking my search engines for more info.....s.
Talleyrand, hey neighbor ! Sorry man I don;t do war gaming at all. My time is about bonk and I have gotten so involved with all my late war Luftwaffe research that I have no time.......I jusat secured another book-type deal again.......arg, too many projects going on !!! I see you are a helmet collector....way cool.

E

 

The whole division was defending huh? heres an interesting note. When the assault on Ortona began on Dec 20 the entire Loyal Edmonton Regt consisted of 3 Companies of 60 men each, replacements for Canadian units in Italy was always a problem, also their tank support consisted of 6 Shermans, They continued to advance for 2 days strait before additional units were added

 

Erich, I will try to get an extra photo. It might not happen though becaus eof some disturbing news I was emailed today.

He didnt pass away or anything like that. What has happened si: two RKT vets have expressed their "concerns" about so many people all of a sudden asking them for autographs, or questions, and not paying them anything, to help offset their costs.

You can read about it in the bottom of these forums in a few topics there--lest I have to repeat it here.

A few, and embarassingly enough, all who are responsible for this, are Americans might have screwed this up for all, because of being as inconsiderate as they were, by not paying something.

So now, I am asking otto to only have these available through me, and people I trust, and only then with a request through emailing me here. I can tell you more in private if you wish. Also, I didnt have time to forward that email yesterday, but will do so sometime today.

 

Dang it anyway ! I thought this might happen unfortunately for all of us......

C'mon guys, what are we doing ???????

Send some funds to these poor guys. heck, if they are going to supply you all with a autographed pic or two, send some monies to help offset their printing and shipping costs to you. Send a minumum of $20.00 and you'll get a good answer plus some nice fotos. Expect the world by sending NOTHING and you screw us all over !

A frustrated historian...... : mad:

E

 

Thanks, and im finally starting to calm down a bit. My entire weekend from the time I heard the news, at about 10:00 am Friday till, late Sunday, was totally ruined. Now I have a friend in Austria, who has to make a long distance call to the vets and make an appeal for me, plus another friend who is in good with one of the vets, is writing a letter to that vet on my behalf.

Talking about having rotten egg all over the face.

 

Carl :

What you had originally done was to post items and then of course have faith in everyone to follow the guidelines. Sad, but it did not happen. I believe that your friends will act on your behalf and get everything straightened out. Limitation of further adresse's is a must.

E

 

Thanks for the public support, I really needed it.

Im hoping that Paul and Christian can at least help me repair my friendship with one of the KC vets. I definaltly will keep those interested in such things--informed.

 

Man I need those shades today......Carl :

Getting back to Billy's post about Ortona. Do you know whom of the Odr listing is a Fallshirmtruppe vet ? I know there is at least 2 or 3 listed, but maybe more. Would be interesting to find out if some of these guys were involved in the fighting there and send out a little inquiry for their personal observations while seriving in one of the 3 regiments of the 1st Parachute Division.
What do you think ?



E

 

Tell you what I need for the moment. One Million dollars, so I dont have to worry about expenses for quite sometime to come, and I can fly first class to Germany for my friends 60th wedding celebration. No money, no can go as it looks now

 

Carl :

I see that Greg Way will be releasing his Fallshirm article on Orotna in the near future via his Fallshirmjäger web-site shortly.

I'm headin out on Wednesday for 2 weeks on a mountaineering trip. should be back the end of the month. Say, is it possible you can make a copy of the Galland/Tettlebach foto for me ??
I have to remember as my German friends have told me countless times....we hoch steigt, kann tief fallen ! " heck I'm always careful......yeah right, I've got a 3 inch screw still in my left ankle from a 35 foot fall on hard ice in 1978 on Mt. Hood. Take care all !!!!!

E