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M10 tank destroyer

Discussion in 'General Chatter' started by Prospero Quevedo, Jul 8, 2021.

  1. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    Wasn't sure where to post this, the M10 TD was factory produced with bolt patterns for armor kits. I have never seen any photos of any TDs with any of those kits. And kits were availble for the Sherman but hardly any used them saw a few pics of tanks with the frontal kits but very few seems odd since they were willing to add the weight of logs cement and sand bags. Has anyone seen pics of M10s with the armor kits even my tank destroyer book mentions it but it a single picture of tanks with the armor logs sand bags. Is it because the could dump the other stuff quickly if they had to but not the armor. Just wondered. Seems like a total waste of time and materials that nobody wanted. Saw something interesting searching. Israeli M10C I believe the article said M10 17pdr, had some modifications stowage and looked like added armor to the turret sides looked liked chimpmunk cheeks.
     
  2. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    No kits were available for the Medium Tank M4, although some development of add-on kits was done. The add on armor for the 3" GMC M10 were rarely used because it was judged the additional weight and difficulty of adding and removing the heavy plates and hauling them about when not in use was not worth the marginal additional protection.
     
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  3. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    Again in accuracies my book on Sherman's showed a tank with ad on armor saying it was a kit. Maybe a field kit made by field enginers? I know crews were reluctant to add weight that could affect speed and Manuverbilty but they added logs sand bags so I would think a few would have tried it but no pics can I find not even for tanks back on the proving grounds. From the bolt pattern looks like it covered only the crew compartment, front and side to about the engine compartment. Itdan's article was very informative about add on armor. I was surprised to learn the Germans employed it to safeguard against anti tank rifles. I didn't think they were so effective it could take out the iii and iv and even the panther from the sides at close range. No wonder you can see pics of bunches of soldiers carrying those rifles. While researching came across an article about Brazilian troops in the war I remember reading that a few South American nations sending troops to help and the mexican Aztec Eagles, flew p47s were just starting to trans to p51s but the war ended, I think I read they let them fly their planes back. Like the Brits let the Czechs fly their spits back, they found one of them recently part of a garden in a farms back yard. The soviets made them get rid of western machines this guy didn't want to so put it in his back yard and made it a garden ornament,lol, too funny. Wonder if they'll try to claim it as war artifact. Crazy how they still find things like those two panthers completely intact and those 109s in that abandon air base. Like what we never checked it out we checked out most buildings and mines and found lots of thing gold currency factories. I was impressed by the pics of those aircraft factories rows of planes on the assembly line and the place looked perfect. Said the allies knew about the factory and bombed it but it was so far underground the bombs had no ettect. My ultimate TD is the hellcat, super low runs like hell, millienum hobbies makes one in my scale but not very good, been reworking it trying to make the gun elevate and build a turret basket. Over the years lots of figures have been made think I can use some to crew the turret. Lol, have to get me that grant with Monty up in his tank wth his glasses or standing next to it just like his new pics too funny, just need some good models of Matilda's cromwells and crusaders. Have resin ones but they don't look great. Some day just came out with the M3, centurion, Stalin 3, and more, lol they have just about everything Japanese these ads considering the Japanese companies dominate the 1/144 market right now, dml and trumpeter were challenging them but have backed off lately. Still hoping for more wwii US equipment M5,8,10,36,26,24,22, and more.
     
  4. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    A closed turret and thicker armor would have made the M10 a descent take possibly.
     
  5. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    A closed turret and thicker armor would have made the 3" GMC M10 a Medium Tank M4.
     
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  6. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    No such "kit" was ever fielded. On 17 February 1944, Chrysler was directed to begin development of an "add-on armor kit". It only got to wooden mock-up stage before it was cancelled at the end of February, in favor of the M4A3E2 project. That was not a "kit" but a purpose-designed, Medium Tank M4A3 with additional armor, popularly known as the "Jumbo". In February 1945, Third US Army, working from local resources, created "ersatz Jumbos". Neither were "add-on armor kits"; the additional armor was in the form of heavier castings and permanently welded on sheets of armor plate.
     
  7. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    That's interesting to know too, bad the M26E5s never made it out fast enough for combat, 27 completed the rest canceled, wonder what we did with them and the unfinished hulls. Might of been useful in Korea. Did they ever try putting the 57 ATG in the M24? That might have given troops another tank killer. I was actually surprised to read that ATG crews preferred the 57, it had the killing power and easy to limber and man handle. The 76 was a better gun but even with a double sized crew hard to limber and man handle. Most of our towed guns were 57s. Read in my ATG book the Germans were making a big push a ATG company set up to stop them covering a bridge. Sine of Tigers were on the road across the river a line go guns hiding in the woods on the other side fired taking out the lead tanks three I think the guy said the rest of the tanks trying to pass the lead tanks the guns limbered up and pulled out they get to the town the two guns covering the bridge were under fire they took out a tank blocking the end of the bridge one crew lost its half track the other limbered up and pulled out he picked up the other gun crew having to abandon their gun and they pulled out to another position. If not for the apds round the 57 probably would have been at the end of its effective usefulness. The 37 was considered useless except against light armor but highly used for its canister shot. It says canister shot was fired more than any other round breaking up large German infantry attacks and firing at large dug in infantry groups, one big shotgun. Says they tried all sorts of things to make a lighter 76 carriage mount be just couldn't make it work. Was also amazed at how few 90mm tow guns were built. I thought the guns in terms movie hell and back the German guns were strange couldn't figure out what they were but being a American movie using US equipment for Germans I looked up US anti aircraft guns and found it was a 90 mm anti aircraft carriage made in the 1950s. I guess the M41s were supposed to be panzer IVs. Might be great if they could do a remake with the proper tanks mock ups and cgi. Just finished WGTB season 2/11. The cgi could be better but it's good enough for when it came out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
  8. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    They said the open turret was a hazard as enemy soldiers could toss in a grenade, the M36 had a cover kit seen some tanks with it but never seen one on the M10 did they have a kit for them and was it rarely used because it would cut down there visibility like it can't weight that much.
     
  9. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    Suggest you get R. P. Hunnicutt's book on the Sherman: A History of the American Medium Tank. He covers the TD variants.

    Re: open turret had two advantages. Greater visibility and easier to bail out.
     
  10. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    With more sloped armor and a better gun, until at least the 76mm version came out.
     
  11. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    The 3" GMC M10 was essentially a Medium Tank M4A2 with an open-top turret and a modified hull. The actual front armor thickness on the M10 was 1/2" to 2" sloped to provide an effective armor basis calculated as 2" to 3 1/4". The actual front armor basis of the M4A2 was 1 1/2" to 2" sloped to provide an effective armor basis calculated as 2" to 4". The M10 also utilized a hand traverse, rather than powered traverse, which experience proved was critical in a tank engagement. The "better gun's" ammunition was also much longer, 35.54" in the 3" APC versus 26.29" for the 75mm APC. The added length made it more difficult to work the gun in an enclosed turret, which was another reason for the open top. The 76mm APC was intentionally made slightly smaller at 33.8" for just the reason.
     
  12. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I can tell it is derived from the M4, but the armor looks more sloped and sleek all the way around, and it has a lower profile.
     
  13. Prospero Quevedo

    Prospero Quevedo Active Member

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    Those Panther/M10s were a brilliant disguise. I was impressed how much work they put in the turret front was well machined and assembled they went to a lot of effort even the front slope altered with sheet plate to change the slope and hide the bow gun with a pop out cover. The big give away was the running gear wonder if they used captured tanks in the operation as well. They took out ten in total like that. It doesn't say why they did that like they were going to smash through American lines so why the sneaky stuff to try to race to one of the bridges and take control, they didn't get very far or hold a key cross road and divert troops the wrong way. Like the fake GIs they have that group stage an exercise and ask him what he thinks of hitler and the officer says your going too far but the other officer in charge says they have to be perfect. But a lot of American Germans went back to Germany to serve in the war a roots thing I guess. Made a lot of soldiers anxious about running into other troops they didn't know. Battle ground a group of GIs anyway they run into another group and they start talking trying to check each other out and they other guy says something wrong and fire away. I'd be screwed I'm terrible with sports and who did what,lol. I guess lots feel a loyalty to their home roots, but these guys were born American and what no loyalty for their birth home.
     
  14. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    That is from the movie "Battle of the Bulge" with Henry Fonda. I just watched it.
     
  15. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    Is there any evidence they ever deceived anyone. The whole brigade was never deployed in its intended role

    What is the evidence for large numbers of German Americans fighting for Germany?

    Panzer Brigade 150 - Wikipedia

    If they could only find ten men who could speak idiomatic American, there cannot have been very many Germans who chose the Third Reich over the USA.

    I know of one Canadian who ended up fighting for Germany.

    Panzer Gunner: From My Native Canada to the German Osfront and Back. in Action with 25th Panzer Regiment, 7th Panzer Division 1944-45 (Hardback)
    Bruno Friesen Panzer Gunner by Bruno Friesen | Waterstones
     

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