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M2 to be retired after 94 years of service.

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by KodiakBeer, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Browning M2 #324 which entered the inventory in 1921 is being retired. The "Ma Deuce" .50 was designed by John Moses Browning hisself, and has served the US military for all these years and will continue to serve until replaced by death rays or something in another 50 years. Yet, even a Browning designed gun can't be made soldier-proof so after "modifications made in the field" this particular vet has to be retired.

    [​IMG]


    http://bearingarms.com/world-warcold-wargulf-war-veteran-retire-94-years-service/?utm_source=gpfbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=gpupdate
     
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  2. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    great engineering ...hot cold rain mud ....still good to go....have to salute the workers also, that actually assembled it...I wonder if they have any records of what battles it ''participated'' in?
     
  3. mcoffee

    mcoffee Son-of-a-Gun(ner)

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    The USAAF had roughly 1 million M2's mounted in aircraft accepted during the war. They fired about 450 million rounds through them overseas.
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    I've stolen that article for a list of long-serving weapons elsewhere, KB.
    A list I never really expected to hold such a remarkable individual device.

    Brilliant stuff.
     
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  5. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Not to many more years of service and "Ma Deuce" will pass up "Brown Bess". According to wiki it saw service for 116 years
    see:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Bess
    As far as firearms go I don't see any other contenders although the M1911 might be if you considered special forces use to count.
     
  6. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Impressive!
     
  7. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    what about other countries' aircraft? didn't some use the M2?
     
  8. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    That's a good question. Lot's of countries used American planes with .50s, but I don't think they were ever used in other countries planes. Maybe some field mods.
     
  9. mcoffee

    mcoffee Son-of-a-Gun(ner)

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    I didn't have statistics for other than the USAAF. US Naval Aviation was also a big user of the M2.
     
  10. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Reliability and versatility. That big slug will ruin an armored vehicle a mile away and chew through concrete or stone houses and come out the other side. You can use it as an infantry emplacement, mounted on a vehicle, mounted on Naval and Coast Guard vessels, and of course on an aircraft or as AA.

    The M2 itself, with modified sights, is accurate enough to use as a sniper weapon and of course the .50 BMG cartridge has been adopted to rifles like the Barret.
     
  11. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    roger that Mcoffee and Dave.......more than impressive..I would guess there were some kinks and problems, but for so many to be used for so long, ..!!!..what about the change in tempeature with aircraft going from 0 to 30,000 feet? 80F to -30F? then back to 80F? heated when fired, then cooled at altitude....? and still working??
     
  12. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    What were the .50s or 0.5" used by the RAF?
    Mid upper and tail turrets in late model Lancasters
    Top guns, two single, later one twin turret, in Sunderlands
    Two 20mm and two 0.5" in some later Spitfire models IIRC

    There was a Vickers 0.5" used on ships, MTBs, and light tanks, was that also in aircraft?
     
  13. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    Thanks. Learned something new.

    The Rose Turret is pretty interesting. I like the portion in the wiki entry about improved field of view

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_turret
     
  14. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    "and will continue to serve until replaced by death rays or something in another 50 years."

    What is replacing it- have you a pic...and is the .50 still the main calibre for heavy US mg's

    Are the Russians/ Chinese changing the Dshk to keep up?
    12.7 or 14.5 - where does machine gun transform into cannon
     
  15. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    The DShk was superceded by the DShkM, that was replaced by the 12.7mm NSV in the early 1970's, and the current (1998 onward) 12.7mm Kord is the standard Soviet HMG at present. There were beaucoup DShk/DShkM's produced and they are encountered all over the world to the present day.
     
  16. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Look at the German 20mm Flak that got drafted into the ground war as an infantry weapon. The 20mm projectile is a bit larger, but the M2 is so much more portable, efficient and versatile that there was no comparison. And right there is the divider between a man portable infantry weapon and something that had to be mounted on wheels - direct fire artillery, at any rate. The German light Flak had incendiary and explosive rounds but they weren't large enough to be any more useful than a large slug on ground targets. At the same time that larger frame turned it into something that had to be towed around.
     
  17. Pacifist

    Pacifist Active Member

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  18. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    portable , yes, to an extent....one time, our gunners carried receiver and barrel together, and tripod separate of course.[ long time ago , sorry memory might be off ]..and we did an assault movement at Vieques Puerto Rico when it was still in military use.....they did not normally do that..weight around 83 LBS without tripod??....for comparison our bipod for 81mm mortar was around 45 LBS....that's heavy...even though we did a 'fast', patrol movement with them, I wouldn't classify it as an assault crew served weapon.....but if you set it up, for an assault, if the terrain is right, you can fire from a defilade position onto the target out of range from small arms and observation
    very portable by Humvee, WW2 jeep, mule etc...and man portable, yes...breakdown needed though, IMO..just like the mortar.....
     
  19. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I'm pretty sure the US military defintion is 20mm below is an mg 20 and up a cannon. There does seam to be a gap between 15mm and 20mm which may make it cleaner (why would a 14.7 be an mg and a 15mm be a cannong for instance).
     
  20. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    It has more to do with the purpose than the diameter. A "cannon" being designed to fire explosive rounds. That would have more to do with the length of the projectile to hold more explosive material, and thus the length of the chamber and mechanism of the gun to feed and fire that longer projectile. Google up pix of the two projectiles and you'll see how different they are.
     

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