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Marine Corps sniper unit poses with SS flag.

Discussion in 'WWII Today' started by Fury 1991, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. Fury 1991

    Fury 1991 New Member

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  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  3. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

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    I don't know if I should laugh or cry........but I really ask myself what the Marine NCO's are doing for their money.
     
  4. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    I really don't think it qualifies for the Stump thread. First of all, unless you are a history major you wouldn't really study Germany, in WWII, in depth. You'll know the big things, who Hitler was, Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin, D-Day, Battle of Britain, Stalingrad, Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima, the Holocaust, etc. That's all the history you'll get in high school and most of these Marines are 18-22 year olds. Even if you did delve deeper into WWII history, you probably won't know the significance of the SS insignia, unless you are into German Uniforms and insignia. The Marine Corps having primarily served in the Pacific, teaches their history in WWII. I'd be willing to wager that most of these Marines can put 70% or more of the members of this forum to shame on subjects relating to the Pacific theater. If you want to go with Marine Corps specific history, or weapons, it would be 90+ or better. Few people are experts on all subjects, you're generally stronger in areas that interest you. So just because they don't recognize an SS insignia is not an indication that they lack historical knowledge overall.
    I remember years ago, and Formerjughead may remember this too, the symbol that Marine Corps armor stationed out at MCB 29 Palms, CA had, was an Afrika Corps style Palm Tree with a Marine Corps emblem where the swastika was located, with unit information located on each side (such as A 1). First time I saw it I knew where it came from, because I used to be a big 1/35 scale modeller. Not because of any indepth historical knowledge I had. Most everyone else had not a clue of where it came from, it just looked cool, and it did. There was no deeper meaning. I think the whole thing is really a tempest in a teapot.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    They're training their troops how to survive in combat and kill the enemy. Taking care of the personal problems of their Marines and leading them in battle. They're fighting wars all over the world, trying to keep their men alive, and keeping the rest of the population safe so thay they can stress out over whether or not they have the latest smart phone. They get their combat and BHA pay put on hold because Congress can't pass a budget, and hasn't for over two years, and want to spend another trillion or so we don't have. But they still go out everyday and close with and destroy the enemy. That's it. They are not worried that some stupid logo might pizz off someone that's looking for a reason to be offended.
     
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  6. tomflorida

    tomflorida Member

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    I love US military, but on a personal level, most are just like the public. Many lack any historical military knoweldge. Many are just as ignorant as the rest of the public. I learned that they are just people. They will do stupid things. Not every one is Maj. Winters. I personally think this picture is insulting to millions and dont buy that they are too busy to be worried about pissing people off. That is a cheap excuse. What if they all did a Nazi salute for the pic, would that then be insulting to most. I feel, those in the pic are an insult the US military and all the good it stands for. As punishment I suggest a lesson with visual aids, showing just what the SS did.
     
  7. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    I'll not only concur, I will see your MCB 29 Plams with the Company Logo for Delta Company 1st Battalion 1st Marines c. 1987. We also had a stencil of this for all of our company gear from water cans to the M151 Jeep w/M1938 trailer. We also had painted on 2 of the CH-46 Sea Knight Helicopters that were assigned to our Company during Westpac 90. I will also pass on that everyone knew what it was, where it came from and what it used to represent.

    [​IMG]


    As far as the stylised "SS": I guess even Nazis wanted to be Marine Scout Snipers.
     
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  8. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    Do you think there is a Marine NCO contemplating the same about you?

    Well before you go putting any lesson plans or power point presentations together you might take a moment and inventory all of the things they, and the people like them, have done for you and your way of life.

    If you have to ask that question then you have never forced yourself to laugh to keep from crying.
     
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  9. freebird

    freebird Member

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    I dunno, the Africa Corps symbol is rather obscure, but I can't believe that none of the dozen or more guys involved in that photo knew what the SS symbol was, or represented
     
  10. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

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    In the year 2012 that's not enough! First of all the SS runes are way over the top for a "rebellious" un official unit insignia! It's the insignia of the ennemy that slaughtered their fellow prisoner countrymen in Cheneux, Bullingen, Honsfeld, Stavelot, Malmedy! I do not suppose that any of the Scout Snipers adheres to Nazi ideology. But any f***tard should be able to predict the shitstorm such an "innocent" logo will provoke. Why keep on handing the Taleban and the pinko anti-war do-gooders propaganda coups on the golden platter for god's sake. In the time of meta-reality the conflict will not be decided on the ground, it might be won on the ground, but the chance to go for the win will be granted by the people at home who shape the political decisions. So try to avoid using Nazi symbols and pissing on dead ennemys, even if I can understand why it happens and I have, on a personal level, no problem with it!
     
  11. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

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    I guess so, it's their right to do so. But do not get me wrong, I admire the USMC, for all their values and capabilities, I know what sacrifices those men give! I can understand why they do these "bad things" and I do not have an issue with it! But once again, we're not 1945, we're 2012 and the NCOs and junior Officers must start developping SA when it comes to media and public opinion, otherwise all the sacrifices done will be wasted.
     
  12. GrandsonofAMarine

    GrandsonofAMarine Member

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    What I don't understand is why they were not using symbols from Edson's and Carlson's Raiders. Both of those groups were badasses and their emblem is quite striking. Oh and they were Marines, not soldiers like the Waffen SS
     
  13. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    Using that symbol was just plain stupid. IMO it's obvious it's just ignorance, not sharing the SS ideology they most likely don't know a thing about, but it's a bit shocking that in a 10 men group nobody objected. Problen is ignorant people are not the sort of "pecekeepers" we need even not cosidering the propaganda damage.
    As some other members pointed out there is obviously a need to demistify the W-SS combat performance, they are not a good example of elite troops.

    I for one have big problems with that sort of behaviour, it should be condemned for what it is (disrespect of basic human dignity) not for it's negative propaganda value.
     
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  14. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

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    Have you seen combat action for a prolongued time? It does funny things to a human being! Unless I know the full story I try not to judge. Doesn't mean I would do it myself or I would condone it if it was done under different circumstances, it might not have been the smartest thing to do, but honestly I think we should have other cats to beat.
     
  15. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    Getting bent out of shape on this issue is no different than not listening to Wagner because of the same association. Using the same rationale should we also not condemn Flavor Flav as being a Nazi supporter because he wears a giant Mercedes Benz emblem around his neck? Does it also mean that every man who wears a Tag Hauer watch condones the fire bombing of London? Does a house wife liken the sound of turning on her Bosch dishwasher with the sound of a Tiger Tank turret rotating into firing position?
     
  16. SKYLINEDRIVE

    SKYLINEDRIVE Member

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    There is a difference inbetween the Mercedes Star and the SS runes.
     
  17. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    I also saw the lame excuse that they thought it stood for Scout Snipers or something. I doubt this, that symbol even got the band Kiss in trouble back when I suppose these men were either boys or teenagers. They shouldn't be this dense, like the urinating incident this sort of thing is NOT the image that the American contingent of the NATO forces should be projecting.
     
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  18. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    It's less an issue of what they believe it to mean, but, more an issue of what it means to them.

    IS there? what about the BMW Propeller?...........what about the Volks Wagon Beetle or the Kublewagon? aren't those also indicative of the Nazi rise to power?
    And just so we are clear I haven't even scratched the surface of the arbitrary examples of how the post WW2 culture embraces the icons of the former Axis nations in everyday life. I litterally have the next three days to debate this issue.

    That simply goes without saying
     
  19. RabidAlien

    RabidAlien Ace

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    Well, this is coming from a Navy guy, with limited exposure to Marines in general, but from what I've read, Marine Scout-Snipers are not selected for their low IQ's. I have no idea what they were thinking when they chose that flag (or whomever approved it and let it get printed up...however that works), but the "we thought it stood for 'Scout Sniper'" sounds, to me, like an oh-crap backpedal CYA spin. I've got a massive amount of respect for these guys and the job they do, but this just sounds like a massive lapse in judgement to me. Not having been in the position they're in, in combat on (or beyond!) the front lines, I can't judge them for doing it simply because my experiences and stress and stupid antics to relieve said stress were (I would imagine) nowhere near what these guys go through. That being said, its a stupid flag. Toss it and design a new one. This should be a non-issue, since there is no active Nazi party that they are fighting. Its a history lesson, like having a pic of Hannibal or Genghis Kahn on their equipment. Means nothing in today's world unless someone is looking for a hot-topic (non)news story to blast all over the place and get ratings up. Yeah...I equate this to be right up there with most of the drunken "no-balls" stunts that are pulled regularly.
     
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  20. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Now then now then boysngirls....As one poster states...forces folk in any nation are just a microcosm of that nations population. I served with a lot of Margaret Thatcher lovers...I hated her but didn't begrudge them their views...If those in pics profess any support for the SS then thats a different matter. And if they are doing so as a recent British MP found out to his cost, just to have a go at the locals then they are on to a loser as we Brits say....Now go have a look at the mob who charged in Balaclava...onwards...rode the Light Brigade...Nice badge though....
     

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