Marine Corps sniper unit poses with SS flag.

Carefull, urqh is gonna start thinking us Texan's had a meeting and decided to gang up on him. (even if it is true, no need to let him in on it so keep it on the qt!)

 

It was brought to my attention that the following post was "Illogical and disingenuous"

I disagree. While the stigma of the Third Reich (ie Nazi's, Hitler, et al) affects some symbols more than others it does not make that symbol any more, or less, culpable in crimes against humanity than any other. It is not the symbol, it is what the symbol represented to the people who wore it during a certain time in world history.

Here is an inreverant look at a few (Caution-Strong adult language):
Third Reich to Fortune 500: Five Popular Brands the Nazis Gave Us | Cracked.com

10 Global Businesses that Worked With the Nazis | Business Pundit

German Industry and the Third Reich: Fifty Years of Forgetting and Remembering

Like I said early I can argue the propriety of the picture and inundate the thread with arbitrary references to how other, just as reprehensible, symbols reside benignly in our everyday lives.

 

For those that doubt the excuse/explaination, did you not read the story that went along with the picture?

"...Marines believed the SS symbol was meant to represent "sniper scouts"—although the logo had apparently been used for years, reports AP"

The symbol had been in use by the unit for years. Those Marines in the picture did not design the flag, they just posed with it, and it contained a symbol that had been used to represent Scout Snipers. I am sure that a number of those that served in the unit over the years knew where the symbol originated but that was not the meaning they associated with it. To them it represented Scout Sniper, and to all those that didn't know what it meant, and that would be the vast majority, it was a cool looking symbol.

Roger,

TOS,

In very few cases do Marines look beyond their own history for inspiration. A lot of people here are attributing the use of the symbol as some type of "respect" for the martial performance of the SS. Marines don't use the SS as some sort of "example" of high military proficiency because Marines don't think they were as good, organizationally, as the Marine Corps. You really don't understand Marines, and very few people really do understand their mindset. In addition most Marines I've met, really lack the complete fascination with the German Army in WWII that I often see evidenced here. I've seen quite a few read up on Rommel because of his tactical proficiency. They do study many individuals and individual actions, but it is in a stricktly professional sense, they look at heroism shown or tactical proficiency exhibited, but examine it solely from the militarily proficient angle. For example, they might study a WWII Soviet action, they would appreciate the heroism shown, the tactical proficiency that allowed them to prevail, and appreciate the stoicism they exhibited, but that wouldn't mean they advocated or approved of the communist system. They might appreciate the martial capabilities of the particular soviet unit(s) involved but they wouldn't put them up on a pedistal and seek to emulate them. The external politics really don't interest them.

"There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion."
Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army

Marines don't emulate other military organizations (except possibly the Spartans) they emulate Marines. Marines are arrogant, they don't think any military force, including the SS is their peer.

"The Marines fought almost solely on esprit de corps, I was certain. It was inconceivable to most Marines that they should let another Marine down, or that they could be responsible for dimming the bright reputation of their Corps. The Marines simply assumed that they were the world's best fighting men." --- Robert Sherrod, 1943

"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are." -Father Kevin Keaney, 1st MarDiv Chaplain, Korean War

 

Marines don't emulate other military organizations (except possibly the Spartans)

What....Marines are all gay?

As for ferocious fighters.....Could be right....2nd to Brit paras I'll give you that....

Well fine thread this turned out to be..

We now know all US marines are gay ss lovers who can be quite ferocious....

Now as to Patton and Monty...anyone got any ideas who was better general?

And should the bomb have been dropped..if not I may not be here...hold on...Dont answer that one...well thats this thread blown apart....

I'm willing to believe the marines were using a flag that they thought had nothing whatsover to do with the SS we know...Its unfortunate the flag to others apart from US Marines looks something else....As to the Marines amongst us...you cannot blame the rest of us for the aghastness some had....Explinations on its origin were needed....Now that guy 3rd left with the tache....he looks a bit Hitler like to me...I had a poster of him once so I should know...

 

I actually agree with that statement at least....We are talking Harry surely and not urqh...I am one of those things....can't admit to both....

 

Heh. I totally missed that snippet. I amend my original statement to point to those who originally came up with the idea to use the symbol on the flag. Probably done as a result of losing a drunken bet, and just sorta stuck around.

 

Dooh, smack my forehead...there goes all hope for my ever getting any grandchildren.

I personally wouldn't have much respect for any military organization that didn't think they were the best or most ferocious. That's called Esprit'.

Yes, he's a corporal and has published a book called, "My Camp".

 

To further elaborate, The Marines were a Scout Sniper section from Charlie Company, 1st Reconnaissance Battalion. 1st Recon Battalion is a component of the 1st Marine Division. As Brad noted, "When I was in STA school (1987) the same symbol was used to designate Scout Sniper teams on map overlays and what not. They were refered to as "lightening bolts" and never as "SS". " Brad was a 1st Division Marine at the time and the symbol was apparently associated with Snipers at least as far back as 1987, or 25 years. I wonder how many thousands of black or Jewish Marines served in or around the Scout Sniper units during that time frame? If it had a darker meaning doesn't anyone think it would have become an issue before now?

GrandsonofAMarine wrote:

The actual unit patch for 1st Recon Battalion is:




The Blue Diamond and Southern Cross go back to the 1st Marine Division patch from after Guadalcanal. As does the One, which also represents the One in 1st Recon Battalion. There's that nasty death's head again but seeing as it predates the SS, I don't think they can lay full claim to it. Ever seen a pirate's flag?

 

Ho...the Marines have a sense of humour....semper fi yankees....

 

What the Marines have done for my way of life is no excuse for being stupid. If you and those Marines can't see the wrong in that photo, I suggest a power point presentation is of most value here, since I do not believe values are number one on those Marines list. Why do we allways thing that EVERY military person is a good moral person, and we can not say anything negative about them? I wonder what WW2 veterns thing of a photo like that?

 

It's just a flag Tom it's not indicative, representative or symbolic of the beliefs or morality of anyone pictured in the photo.

 

To many people it is not "just a flag", but a symbol of an organization that tried to erase them from this earth. Symbols mean a lot to human beings so saying it is just a flag is to miss the point.

 

No point missed at all...it is just a flag and it may represent many things to many people. The fact is: that flag did not fly when the Third Reich headed east, it did not follow the NAZIs on there conquest west. It never flew over a death camp and it was never flown during any crime against humanity. That flag never flew during any time associated with the Third Reich. It is not a NAZI Flag.

 

Sorry I totally disagree. The American flag is just not a flag. It represents so much to so many, just as the SS symbol represents so much to so many. And they couldnt be further apart.

 

You are certainly welcome to do that, but, you also have to be willing to accept that the symbolism on the flag may not represent the same thing to the men in the picture as it does to you.

 

True, but did you not see thousands if not millions Nazi officers and their uniforms. Common you cant be this blind to what the Nazi SS insignia stands for. May be before the war it may have meant something else, but after the millions of murders I think the meaning has changed. Like it or not.

 

How many hundreds of thousand Native Americans were killed and repressed under the U.S. Flag?
Florida was a founding member of the Confederacy does that mean you support slavery or that your State Flag is representative of the belief that slavery was a good thing?

 

Ok then answer this. Would you be insulted if the Marines in the photo posed doing the Nazi salute?

 

Indeed I would