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Mark II SPG?

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by Ilhawk, Feb 14, 2016.

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  1. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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    Is this a Mark II converted to an SPG. Located at Carentan France and used against 327 in Marina area? S2 reported as Mark 2.

    Looks sort of like Hotchkiss chasis?
     

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    Ilhawk, Feb 14, 2016
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  2. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Fairly certain the chassis is from a Czech Pz 38(t). It even has the same odd gap between the two center-most road wheels. Some small modifications were clearly made to the front hull and major mods to the superstructure. The original armament would have been up-gunned to deal with late war armor fielded by the allies, as the original 37mm wouldn't have been of much use. Not sure what the new gun is, the Marder line was based upon this chassis, but I guess it could even possibly be a captured Soviet model gun?

    I've attached the photo from the wikipedia entry on the topic: By Werner Willmann - Own work, CC BY 2.5, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1311793
     

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    Otto, Feb 14, 2016
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  3. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Looks most like a SdKfz 138 Marder III with a 75mm German made gun. The muzzle brake is cropped but the section under the barrel matches photos of the 138 Marder,
     
    Otto, Feb 14, 2016
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  4. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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    Thx!

    Is it related to Mark 2?
     
    Ilhawk, Feb 14, 2016
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  5. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    They both server a similar important role at the same time in the early war, but the Pz II was of German design, whilst the Pz 38(t) was a Czech vehicle and they are of independent lineage. When the Reich occupied Czechoslovakia in 1938, they incorporated the existing Czech AFVs into their armed forces and used their construction facilities to make some additional combat vehicles. The (t) designation in the Pz 38(t) indicated a vehicle of Czech origin.
     
    Otto, Feb 14, 2016
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  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Marder III Ausf. H.

    Which, as Otto has pointed out was based on the Pz 38(t) chassis.
     
    Takao, Feb 14, 2016
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  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Takao, Feb 14, 2016
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  8. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The initial photo posted is quite confusing, specifically the large open T-34 style hatch on the right front hull. I've not seen a hatch of this size on the t-38(t) chassis, but it's not entirely unexpected with the penchant of the Reich's armament industry to make a multitude of adjustments to existing vehicle design and construction.
     
    Otto, Feb 14, 2016
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  9. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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    Thx all. Amazing!
     
    Ilhawk, Feb 14, 2016
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  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Your "hatch" is the gun travel lock
    [​IMG]

    Folded forward
    [​IMG]
     
    Takao, Feb 14, 2016
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  11. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    So it is. I was aware of the lock, the grainy shadowing fooled me. Good eye Takao!
     
    Otto, Feb 14, 2016
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  12. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Looks like Christie type suspension and rubber road wheels. Wonder how often rubber road wheels (without its' tracks) were actually used. Seeing as how there weren't a lot of hard surfaces that wouldn't turn to ice or mud back then.
     
    Poppy, Feb 14, 2016
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  13. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Don't let the large wheels fool you. The road wheels were mounted on bogies, two bogies to a side - Hence the gap that Otto mentioned earlier.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Takao, Feb 14, 2016
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  14. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Is that rubber around each bogie- would there be rubber (rather than steel) if they weren't intended to be towed or driven without tracks (to avoid track wear).
     
    Poppy, Feb 14, 2016
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  15. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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    You think those are rubber wheels and not just disabled?

    It was positioned near the church near the marina in Carentan. The Germans largely abandoned the city on the 12th after heavy pressure largely from 327. Co G was treat by snipers which caused that co 20 casualties that day. It had been positioned to confront the attack from the canal area. 2nd battalion s 2 in 2 different reports said Mark 3 and mark 2. Two of them.
     
    Ilhawk, Feb 14, 2016
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  16. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    Most WW2 tank wheels have tyres. It's not an indication of Wheel-cum-track or trackless ability.

    Though there were a few exceptions, some clever-buggery was required in steering and drivetrain.:
    [​IMG]
    & http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fa2_1423929637&comments=1


    And all that 'Wheel-cum-track' business.
    [​IMG]




    Funny that Marder should come up. Was just discussing them on Friendface after a chap on 2T raised this British Marder-esque Valentine project:
    [​IMG]
     
    von Poop, Feb 14, 2016
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  17. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Poppy, Feb 15, 2016
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  18. Ilhawk

    Ilhawk New Member

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    Ilhawk, Feb 16, 2016
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  19. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    To the victor, the scrap.
    Marder 2 (Said to be in Milovice)

    [​IMG]
     
    von Poop, Feb 17, 2016
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  20. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Reviewing the original photo (again), I don't see any tracks at all. Often a destroyed AFV with tracks will have the tracks knocked off and lying on the ground, partially on the guidewheels and partially on the ground.

    As you noted, the vehicle you posted appears to have no tracks anywhere to be seen, so it's logical that it didn't have any at the time of it's capture. I'd imagine the Allied troops arrived during it's untracked movement, and the crew decided to abandon the vehicle rather than fight it out in a vehicle with hobbled mobility.
     
    Otto, Feb 19, 2016
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