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Market Garden - Something controversial

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by roscoe, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    What do the team think of this...........
     
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  2. jimmytwohand

    jimmytwohand New Member

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    Which show was this please?
     
  3. gunbunnyb/3/75FA

    gunbunnyb/3/75FA Member

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    im sure that some of our arnhem guys could shed some light on this interesting little tidbit
     
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  4. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr Patron  

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    I think it's a load of Daily Mail-type populist rubbish.

    It was be easy - but rather boring - to go through it point by point ( why would a 'young Guards Captain' expect to take orders from an American Captain..? etc etc) but it sounds to me that a media organization is trying to concoct a 'sensation' ( Prince Bernhard was in the SS, hardly spoke a word of Dutch and ate Sauerkraut for breakfast ) . Maybe I'm wrong, but there it is...

    Anyhow, I have a confession to make to you all,. I have stayed at the Bilderberg Hotel on three occasions - my name is really Martin Bormann ! :dance4:
     
  5. sapper

    sapper British Normandy Veteran, Royal Engineers

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    The dreadful swings and roundabouts of war. It needs to be kept in perspective. .The defeat that befell the 1st Airborne was nothing, when you compare the casualties of a British airborne division....With the wholesale destruction of German armies at Falaise.
    Swordsman.
     
  6. jimmytwohand

    jimmytwohand New Member

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    It was this point which made me spit out my cornflakes. You could barely do that now, let alone at night, while tired, with an enemy cutting your supply routes, lacking infantry support, and enemy infantry in your vicinity, and high ground under threat, and not having perfect intelligence which we do today, on a single poor road, exposed above a morass with limited reinforcements available and logistical difficulties. Even if my murky recollections are mostly wrong that statement just completely ignores all the conditions of the time for those poor sods.

    By the same reasoning it was just 18 hours in a Sherman to Berlin. They should have just done that. ;)
     
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  7. dbf

    dbf Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Looks like a direct quote from some website. I won't link, easy enough to find through search engine with part of the text.

    Lot of conspiracy stuff involving Bilderberg Group - that's the background to the quote, so I doubt much actual research has gone into the OMG part.
     
  8. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr Patron  

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    One can imagine how history could have been written differently had Carrington obeyed orders at gunpoint - something like : 'An entire column of lightly-armoured M4 Shermans taken out by one well-emplaced German gun - how could the mighty British Guards Armoured division have been so stupid as to advance without sufficient infantry support...?'

    Or maybe Captain Burriss would have carried out a recce...after all, it should only have taken about 1.5 hours to briskly walk the 9km down the road to Arnhem..... :eatpopcorn:
     
  9. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    I must say that the first post is only a gathering of conspiracy nonsens :The Bilderberg group and MG . :bullshit: ,and Bernhard formerly a SS officer :unless one can prove a) that Bernhard knew the details of MG b) that he was giving them to Berlin,this is only a lot of meaningless :blahblah:
     
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  10. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    Don't make fun of Bilderberg Group, it's real.

    ]Blair admits to attending Bilderberg despite saying in the House of Commons that he never attended

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIb8TwJ8mbU#t=281

    If it's harmless then why lie about it?
     
  11. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    Well I did think that the main reason the tanks stopped was because they were without infantry support and were vulnerable by being limited to one road raised above the flooded farmland. I'm sure that the experience of the Tiger Tank in Normandy had made the tank crews somewhat cautious.
     
  12. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    What I would like to be explained to me is why the High Command was liasing with a German who was known to be former SS
     
  13. dbf

    dbf Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Who said it wasn't real, all the conspiracy stuff just bores me - your quotes and that response are a great indicator at the level this thread has been pitched from. Not so much about Market Garden, more some other agenda?
     
  14. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    Lord Carrington was awarded the Military Cross for his part in capturing Nijmegen.

    He was chairman of Bilderberg.
     
  15. jimmytwohand

    jimmytwohand New Member

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    Putting your point in bold and highlighting it does not make it a more effective argument. Perhaps because some people believe anything and he didn't want the hassle? I fail to see how the Blair point relates to Prince Bernard anyway. A quick google search brings up plenty of reasons why he would be included and trusted. In my book shooting at Germans is a good enough indication of his loyalty, but it seems he was extensively vetted.as well. He may have been a member of the party but he left long before the war no?

    If you have evidence to the contrary please present it and i would be happy to re-evaluate my thinking.

    You have presented 2 points. Please show how they relate to one another with your evidence.
     
  16. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    What conspiracy stuff? Blair was asked in the House of Commons whether he had attended and replied No.

    He then said in the interview that he had attended.

    IF BILDERBERG IS HARMLESS THEN WHY LIE?
     
  17. dbf

    dbf Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I'm off. This topic is suffering from yet another case of the loons.
     
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  18. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    Prussian Prince Bernhard von Lippe joined the Nazis while studying at the University of Berlin in 1934 and worked openly in the motorised SS. According to Newsweek (April 5, 1976) it was known that Prince Bernhard was a member of a special SS intelligence unit in IG Farben and this had originally been pointed out in testimony at the Nuremberg trials.

    Bernhard resigned from the SS, in 1937, when he married the future Queen Juliana of the Netherlands. Adolf Hitler forwarded a congratulatory message though Bernhard, who became a naturalised Dutchman.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here's his daughter filmed at Bilderberg recently.

    She is the wealthiest Royal on the planet, her family are the main shareholders of Royal Dutch Shell.
     
  19. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    Anything wrong with the statements made?

    I'm sorry that these FACTS don't sit comfortably with your world view.

    [​IMG]

    Back on topic. Here is the former SS Prince with Horrocks and Monty.
     
  20. jimmytwohand

    jimmytwohand New Member

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    Care to provide sources for your dates and FACTS? Should be easy. They seem to be wrong though. When did he leave those organisations? I have to agree with dbf that this has turned into a looney thread very quickly. I would be out too except that you seem to be slandering someone who actually put his arse on the line to save Europe and is now dead so cannot defend himself on the basis of....well, nothing that i can see. Do you have any affiliation with the Bilderburg websites out there?

    My cat disappeared August 2008.

    Major financial institutions collapsed in September 2008.
     
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