From another grouping that I am finally going through. It includes one from Maj. Bong and 27 Flags, McGuire 38 victories, MOH DING HAO. Need to go through the rest.
..didn't the AAF count planes destroyed on the ground in total kills? ..I saw a P38 at an air show and a TBF...they are so much bigger in real life!!!
Yes & No. DING HAO, flown by Major Howard, while he was with the AVG, only scored 2 air to air kills against the Japanese, the other 4 were on the ground. I think the extra 4 were added for the publicity photos. Bong's & Macquire's were all air to air.
...thanks..I thought I had read they were .....most of my reading on them was many years ago--so my memory is not good
It was only for the 8th Air Force that counted ground kills towards Ace status. Some fighter pilots in the 9th AF would have include ground kills on the tally painted on their aircraft, but those did not count for there Ace status.
....roger that...I also thought I remember reading Bong was a great pilot...I just did a quick search and found out that is true......one thing that sticks in my mind from reading many, many years ago, is one of the aces [ I thought it was Bong ] could fly so good, he would get so ''close'' to his prey that he '''couldn't'' miss = I would think to be one of the best -at least a ''great'' ace, you would need to be a great pilot....but maybe it's like sports athletes - some just have that extra know how--that extra sixth sense to be better than great the word ''natural'' is coming up a lot .... Bong, Richard Ira - National Aviation Hall of Fame Richard Bong: Ace of Aces – Military History of the Upper Great Lakes
I also remember reading that many of the great pilots had some very auspicious first couple of flights. Sometimes being lucky to survive the first few sorties and to learn from some of the older pilots helped. Plus as the war moved on our technology continued to improve. I did a quick search on Erich Hartman who had a total of 352 confirmed kills but at the same time was forced down 16 times. Now there also was a different pilot rotation for the Luftwaffe than the allies so to survive that long was truly amazing. One of my most prized and rare books I own is Men of The Battle of Britain. A Biography Directory of the few. It lists the pilots who fought between July 10 and October 31 1940 with an in depth bio pf their military and personnel life as much as possible. There is a total of 585 pages and some very famous pilots but you would be very surprised of how many pilots with names that you never heard who lost their lives on day 1 over the Channel, training etc. The book is also signed by 15 surviving BOB pilots. So pilots like McGuire and Bong were exceptional at what they did
Shooting up planes on the ground is like strafing parked trucks - useful, but hardly a feat of airmanship comparable to an air-to-air victory.
That may be. But I would sooner take my chances at altitude and be able to bail out, then at 100-300 feet and plow a field.
I still say either way required some extreme guts. You also can look at Group Captain Sir Douglas Bader. He was credited with 22 kills, 4 shared, six probable's, 11 enemy damaged planes all while doing this with two prostatic legs after loosing his own in a plane crash white attempting aerobatics 1931. He was shot down and was befriended by Adolf Galland who allowed a British plane to fly over to drop down a new leg to replace the one damaged when he bailed out. Once the got the new leg(as the story goes) he immediately tried to escape. He eventually ended up at Colditz Castle until1945. Bader was a personnel hero of mine and actually had the opportunity to meet him before he passed away in 1982. I also had the pleasure to meet Galland who also was a true gentlemen. I guess the point is that these men all had something very special about them to achieve the rank of "Ace".
Not in the 8th Air Force, air & ground kills were the same. Other units might use the silhouette of an aircraft to signify a ground kill.
....maybe I posted it already, but I remember reading once about pilots [ and this goes for ground troops and some people who do well in civilian life also ] where a good percentage of the pilots just were ''civilians'' getting the job done/doing their duty/just enough to get by--- and ''did not'' aggressively want combat ....another percentage were career/professional military men who did well but did not have the ''killer'' instinct/etc ....the ''few'' were the ones who aggressively sought combat and had that special sense--like the very few top athletes .....many athletes have the physical attributes, but are not ''smart'' or have that special ''sense''/wanted contact/etc ..I remember a painting of either WW2 or Korea of 3 men- ground troop-- going on patrol ....and the caption was similar to my above statement: 1 was just getting the job done....1 was an officer or something/etc...1 wanted to go on the patrol/wanted action--was eager ..in the book Operation Buffalo about one of the worst ambushes in USMC history, the Marines nicknamed a ground pounder captain ''Captain Contact'' because he wanted to make contact all the time....he was a good officer in combat/etc....but the book mentioned that the other Marines [ understandably! ] did not want to make contact with the enemy
..I was in the USMC for 8 years in the mid 80s....we had the same types they had 40 years before....screw offs/SUPER gung ho/gung ho/ones who did only the minimum necessary/the jokester/etc
