Missed opportunities and hypocrisy leading up to WWII.

Couldn't or didn't care, at all?

At the White House, when William Bullitt tried to warn Roosevelt about Stalin's true intent, the President lost patience with him.
'Bill, I don't dispute your facts, they are accurate,' Roosevelt replied, 'I don't dispute the logic of your reasoning. I just have a hunch that Stalin is not that kind of man. Harry says he's not and that he doesn't want anything but security for his country, and I think that if I give him everything I possibly can and ask for nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of democracy and peace.'

Bullitt purposefully reminded the President that when he talked of noblesse oblige he was not speaking of the Duke of Norfolk but of a Caucasian bandit whose only thought when he got something for nothing was that the other fellow was an ass'. But Roosevelt had heard enough: 'It's my responsibility and not yours, and I'm going to play my hunch.'
from: Tim Tzouliadis, The Forsaken: An American Tragedy in Stalin’s Russia

 

I've read diplomatic documents of statesmen who dealt with Hitler during that era, papers of other statesmen, and Hitler and the other diplomats in black and white said his directions and plans were all at the East and Communist Russia, and if the West won't accept that than so be it. The appeasement and other actions pretty much allowed Hitler to build for his crusade against Communism. The Spanish Civil War said it all. The West let the sovereign far-left/Socialist government be fought and overthrown by far-right nationalist fascists, and did nothing. Hitler and Mussolini intervened and they still did nothing. The West, the US didn't like Communism or Soviet Russia. They didn't have much if at all any diplomatic relations with them either. They wouldn't make treaties or pacts.

 

The Red Army was at its reserve limit in 1945, we cut off lend-lease and with our full armies against their depleted forces we could easily have stopped. A giant pincer movement from the East and West. A strategic air offensive.

 

So it was OK for Poland to annex lands in 1921 (and 1938), but you get upset when the largest army on the planet tore them away from you a mere 24 years later? Good-Goose-Gander. Then you whinge about how your allies sold out? Excuse me, but Poland was not entirely flawless. Not as Evil as suggested by Tamino, but pretty far from the shining beacon of humanity and international decency you paint.

There comes a time when it is reasonable to just accept what is, rather than continue fighting for what should be, regardless of the morality. Realpolitik is the diplomacy of the survivor. Poland possessed none of it.

 

Really? That will explain how more than 1,500,000 soldiers of the Red Army swept through Japanese held Manchuria in a double pincer envelopment that took 12 days, then went on to occupy North Korea. Because they were entirely depleted and at their reserve limit.

Their reserves were so depleted that during this operation, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland were occupied by one aging babushka on a bicycle armed with a small twig.

 

I agree, we didn't need to start a third. Hypothetically, if it came down to a showdown between the USSR and the USA/West, at that point in 1945 when the USSR was down to their limit in reserve manpower and the US was just reaching peak mobilization and production, cutting off lend-lease and bombing the USSR from both West and East, the USSR would not have won.

 

The Allies didn't justify their 1945 partition of Poland with the events of 1921/1938 so this argument is irrelevant.
They knew what happened then and accepted as compliant with international law.
Otherwise it should be assumed they signed their later agreements with Poland in bad faith, with no intention of respecting them later.

Specifically they knew that Poland was trying to recover annexed lands which had been a part of Poland for hundreds of years. They knew the Soviet Government was illegal - according to international law, and actually according to Russian law too.
Rebels, illegitimate governments are not protected by law as lawful international entities are.

And in the case of Czechoslovakia, the Polish demands were a raider on the German ones.
As long the Allies didn't accepted Germans demands Czechoslovakia was safe. But they accepted them, accepted Polish demands and then force Czechoslovakia to accept both.
Still international law wasn't broken by Poland and by the Allies. Only Germany was the only guilty party there, as they had renounced the use of force in international relations long time ago.

 

Poland was not going to fight the Soviets, the WW2 was enough. They simply didn't want to legitimize aggression.

And as I said it was: Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, parts of Poland, Finland, Czechoslovakia, Romania. Actually Poland and her history is irrelevant here. She wasn't the only victim.

 

Poles were those who revoked their obligations so where is the problem?

EDIT: .... and, by the way, Poland wasn't an objective, just the mean to achieve more important objectives and, something you don't want to accept: Poland was dispensable.

 

The Polish Government in Exile never revoked any obligations.
Stalin and the Allies created a new, puppet government, which did their bidding as ordered.

 

First, you don't understand: Beck, the minster of foreign affairs has renounced Polish obligations to treat minorities in decent manner.
The post-war Poland was a Polish state, governed by the Poles. If they failed, that's your problem. Stop blaming others for shortcomings of Polish state, grow up and accept responsibility for your own country and stop begging others to do something for your country. You should rather start asking yourself what could you do for the benefit of your own country. Well, part of your country was taken from Germans and was granted to your country - free of charge. Show some gratitude and at least a minimum of selfrespect and, please, stop moaning.

 

So if you rape woman and give her $1000 it would be ok, after all it's five minutes and 500 British minimum wages earned.

No, rapes of women and minors can be compensated with money, as a rape of a country can't be compensated with land.

It's not it was a single country punished for renouncing some obscure treaty.
It was seven countries from Latvia to Romania. Of course we could mention Vietnam betrayed by the British in 1945 too.
Ethiopia 1935 left for dead by them without a word of protest, the usual Czechoslovakia, China 1937 abandoned during the battle of Shanghai.
It's not like it was the first time - and the last.

 

No! it is too expensive and you talk trash.

 

The Poles had nothing to say in their own country.
Their president was a NKVD agent, their Minister of Defense a Soviet general.
The Ministry of Public Security was ran by a Jewish NKVD officer.
Every decision was consulted with or ordered from Moscow.

 

Confused.

Were the others Catholic? Or Protestant? Or Buddhist? Or Atheist? Or Irrelevant?

 

Jewishness is not religion, so even Buddhist Jews exists.

The Stalinists didn't believe in nations and didn't have common characteristics with any of them. So it is fair to identify them by their ethnicity. After all it would be strange to call Stalin a Russian, although he was born in Russia.

 

It's not that expensive, considering that in the US it's on average 9 years in prison.