Mortorcycle Infantry

YouTube - WW2 - German Motorcycle Riflemen (Jan 1941)

These recon troops seemed to be vital for the early war German advances. Were these troops obsolete by mid-war and why were they phased out? Why did the Allies not use them? (or they had a better alternative in the form of jeeps?)

 

I don't have a direct "fact" but in my own opinion i feel that the Americans were just a little while (a few years) ahead of the Germans when it came down to it. On the other hand men AND women were both trained as motorcycle recon troops.

 

There are two reasons they were phased out. The first and major reason was motorcycles of the period had horrible off-road capability for the most part; particularly those big heavy German bikes. Second, the cost of manufacture was higher than for light cars per capita.
The Allies and Germans did continue to use motorcycles throughout the war but only in roles like messenger, single MP for traffic control, that sort of thing. Jeeps and the lighter Kubelwagen were far better and more capable vehicles for military use overall.

 

Not to mention their transport capacity is low to nil, and they carry no armor. At times, reconnaissance troops have to fight for information on how the enemy is deployed or to fend off aggressive enemy reconnaissance troops. Having at least light armor and small cannon is far better than what a motorcycle with a machine gun offers.

Early U.S. armored division organization in Tunisia included some motorcycle scouts that were an element of reconnaissance companies.

The Germans continued to use two wheeled vehicles, though. Late war infantry and Volksgrenadier divisions included bicycle mounted companies in the Fuesilier battalions. A final, pathetic use of bicycles was as a mobile platform for Volkssturm with Panzerfausts.

Cheers

BW

 

Some MPs in the US Army had bikes. Suits their traffic cops and real echelon security duties well, I suppose.

 

armies have different syles of ways of doing things,the motocyles-sidecarts must at that time sutied the germans very well,where as the americans preferr the jeeps.
the american jeeps were another alternitve to the germans motorcyles- side carts, and serve the americans well.
i do not think the motorcyles side-carts were pharsed out at all,the amercans were basically using jeeps that work in the same manner as the germans motorcyle sidecarts.

 

Although now a closed thread, check-out JCFalkenbergIII's "High Tech German Military" thread for plenty of examples of bicycle mounted units throughout the war.

 

Here's what Hitler though of his BMW bikes:
YouTube - When Hitler got a BMW-GS

For the non motorbike types a VFR is a Honda, a GS is a BMW 'Tank' and Harley Davidson is a poor excuse for a bike made in America.

Enjoy

 

Something of a tangent, but perhaps underlining the perceived importance of the Zundapp/BMW (etc.) heavy combinations in German thought of the period is their price.

From an old CMV Magazine:
BMW R75 or Zundapp KS750 Combinations cost 3185 RM each!
Compared to (roughly) :
1000 RM for a Beetle.
1600 RM for a Kubelwagen.
30,000 RM for a bf109. (?, not sure about that one? )

At c.18000 of each type built that's c.114,660,000RM on these machines alone, not including spares, support, and twice the man-hours to produce one over a Kubel, which did many of it's jobs as well.

The biggest problem with the heavy 3X2 combinations proved to be maintenance, they're surprisingly capable off-road, even in mud, with their crawler gear and driven sidecar wheel, but they are quite delicate. From their early 1941 introduction they seem to have been (and still are) a bit of a bugger for unskilled users to keep running properly.

Further tangentialism on 3X2 bikes:
British In-line military 3X2 prototype from 1928:

German example, considered before the selection of the BMW & Zundapp 'conventional' designs:




~A

 

You are correct that motorcycles and motorcycles with sidecars were not phased out, but their use as reconnaissance and infantry transport platforms was phased out around 1943 in the German forces. The Germans continued to use them for despatch riders, etc.

November 1943 appears to be a point in the organization structure of the German forces at which motorcycles were still present in some reconnaissance companies but also at which four wheeled vehicles were taking their place. See these KStN's for more information:

Panzer

Kriegsetat

Cheers

BW

 

I had no idea that those motorcycles were so labor intensive. I've always assumed that Kubelwagons and Jeeps were more expensive.

 

Were these Kubel units in the infantry divisions or the Panzer divisions? I thought by 1943, the recon battalion in German Panzer divisions were mainly fully mounted on either 250 armored halftracks and armored cars of various sorts.

 

>Were these Kubel units in the infantry divisions or the Panzer divisions?

Panzergrenadier divisions had them and they were authorized for Panzer Division 45 establishments.

Cheers

BW

 

Duplicate.

 

A couple of pictures of WW2 Harley Davidsons'...