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Most Enemy Aircraft Encountered on a Mission?

Discussion in 'Air War in Western Europe 1939 - 1945' started by Fred Wilson, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    The USAAF 392nd Bombardment Group ran into 50 ME 109's right during and after the bomb run to Bingen Dec 2nd 1944.

    See: http://www.b24.net/missions/MM120244.htm

    This day would go down in the 392nd’s history as one of the roughest missions ever flown in terms of aircraft and aircrew casualties.
    It would be the highest attrition the Group would ever suffer through the remaining missions of World War II.
    It was also ironic that the evening of this date, the 200th mission party celebration for all Enlisted Men of the 392nd was planned.
    At 0515 and 0640 hours, (18) aircrews were briefed on the target and at 0930, all began their take-offs.
    Two squadrons were put up this day, flying high and low formations off of the 44th Bomb Group at Shipdham.
    The mission went orderly until the IP where heavy clouds were encountered for start of the bomb run.
    At this position, the high squadron managed to avoid the weather and bomb the target.
    The 577th Squadron, flying in the low position, were scattered out just west of the IP but made their bomb run through the clouds.
    This Squadron broke out of the weather right over the release smoke of the lead ship of 44th which caused a late bomb drop.
    The Group dropped a total of (216) 500 GPs in the target area but their problems were just beginning.
    At the rallying turning point about 1244 hours, the 577th was hit by an estimated 50 FW-109 fighters between Bingen and Bad Kreuznach to the northeast.
    The fierce attacks lasted for around fifteen minutes with fighters attacking above and below — tail astern.

    Six of the 577th crews were lost in this short period with very little known about any since the Squadron was so badly broken up by this time.
    The aircrews were: Captain H. D. Watkins in #785; Lieutenant R. J. Cieply in #323; Lieutenant G. R. Billingsley in #867; Lieutenant W. C. Buaas in #012; Lieutenant E. L. Comeau in #328; Lieutenant W. F. Davis in #961.
    From the 577th, ship #169 also with Lieutenant D. L. Walker’s crew managed to return to land at Manston with (4) crew members wounded.
    Strangely enough, friendly fighter support for this mission was rated as very good. The remaining ships returned around 1550 hours with gunners claiming (4) enemy aircraft kills.

    Any others that are noteable?
     
  2. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    The USAAF 392nd Bombardment Group again ran into 50 ME 109's on the Berlin bombardment of the Friedrichstrasse Railroad Station April 29th 1944.
    See: http://www.b24.net/missions/MM042944.htm

    Click Here - Annette Tison shares her in-depth research of the 29 April 1944 mission to Berlin flown by the 8th Air Force on April 29, 1944, with an emphasis on the role of the 392nd Bomb Group.
    After several years of research on The Wyatt crew, including her uncle, 2Lt Douglas N. Franke.
     
  3. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Fred

    the Kassel missions on 9/27/44 where the 3 Sturmgruppen and air cover by I./JG 300 attacked the poor US 445th bg and nearly took them out from the skies, 30 B-24's lost, and sadly due to memory loss and the data not in front of me I cannot quote the actual LW figure of fighters attacking but it was significant. the 445th bg veered off course and were alone for too long before the US 361st fg came to their rescue but IV.Sturm/JG 3 already shot down 18 B-24's and successfuly banked and dropped down out of harms way. and there were other missions as well in September/October 44 with large amounts of LW fighters engaging a single US b.g.
     
  4. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    I will have to read up on that 445th Bombardment Group mission. http://www.445bg.org/

    The 392nd Bombardment Group must have been nearly wiped out vs Friedrichstrasse - albeit over several return visits.
    - It is just a horror story for the ages.
     
  5. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Fred another mission is July 7, 1944 the US 492nd bg was hit very very hard by Fw's and after this mission the 492nd bg became a night time unit till dissolved and absorbed by other US bg's.
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  7. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    I just found a website dedicated to that day. Kiss Bye Bye to sleep for yet another night.

    http://kasselmission.com/

    Loss Report list: http://www.445bg.org/sep-44.html
     
  8. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    yes I know some of the folk at the web-site besdies the Facebook page. have helped with the Lw losses and claims over the years.
     
  9. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    Hmmm. Stay in touch.

    Leo71 and I would like to enter the 445th (and 492n) Bombardment Groups Loss reports into the http://lostaircraft.com/database.php?

    We just finished the 392nd Bombardment Group - see http://lostaircraft.com/database.php?mode=list&sk=id&sd=d&start=100

    Leo71 (Claus) is a Luffwaffe expert from Germany who is really dedicated to this USAAF project.

    I realize most of these are usually available, somewhere.

    But we are three and four generations removed from WW2 now, and often descendants only have a name to search with.

    This is it where really shows its worth - http://lostaircraft.com/
    - plus the ability for ANYONE to step in and edit away.
     
  10. d.henry.g

    d.henry.g New Member

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    Kassel Mission 27 September 1944. Thirty five 445thBG B-24's make IP.... stray from bomber stream and are ambushed by 125 to 150 ME109's and FW190.s: JG 300 l Gruppe and ll Sturmgruppe, JG4 ll Sturmgruppe, and JG lV Sturm.

    Losses from 6 minute air battle:

    American: 21 B-24's are downed within a 16 mile radius of each other in the Werra Valley near Eisenach, Germany. Four limped away but crashed on German soil. Two crash landed in France. I crash landed in Belgium. Two landed wheels down at Manston Emergency Field, England. One crash landed at Old Buckenham. Four landed wheels down at home base at Tibenham. One returned to base unharmed. Of the 336 crewmen that made IP 117 were KIA and 121 were captured.

    German: Twenty nine fighters; 25 FW190's and 4 ME109's. Nineteen fighter pilots were KIA.

    Also KIA was American fighter pilot Leo Lamb when his Mustang and an FW190 collided.

    www.kasselmission.com

    d.giesler@kasselmission.com
     
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  11. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    Welcome to our forum Duane. Thank you for replying so quickly.

    That is a wonderful tribute website you have created, and a succinct synopsis of that mission's history.
     
  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    as to Kassel LW sources state 31 Fw's lost. Leo was shot down by an Fw 190A-8/R2 by Leonard V.. Duane I sent Linda and her Father all the German LW actions so many years ago for the book that was to be publsihed including unknown info from our former Sturmgruppen missions 1944 web-site.

    good to see you here.
     
  13. d.henry.g

    d.henry.g New Member

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    Thank you for the welcome.

    We have Unteroffizier Hans Kalchscmid (JG4 - ll Sturmgruppe) colliding with 2LT Leo Lamb (361FG/376FS) and both planes falling to earth and landing nearly side by side just North of Gotha.

    We can also document, locate, and confirm crash sites of 29 FW's and ME's as a result of the battle. 361stFG claims 18, and an additional 11 were lost to B-24 guns or mid air collisions. If you have LW records that indicate otherwise, I would like to get them in front of our archaeologist/historian friend in Eisenach.
     
  14. d.henry.g

    d.henry.g New Member

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    Fred...The Loss Report you've referenced at http://www.445bg.org/sep-44.html is flawed. 1stLt Kenneth Webster was not on the 9-27-44 mission, and no 445th B-24's were lost to flak on the mission. Also, it should be 1stLt Edward F. Hautman, not Hartman. I haven't gone over the list thoroughly, but these two discrepancies stand out.

    With a second look I see a few misspells....otherwise appears factual and correct. I would also note that Webster's info is dated 9-12-44. I think Mike just picked it up inadvertently.
     
  15. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    lets see if this is confirmed Kalchmid scored a P-51 150 metres ostrand der Stadt gotha at 11.17hrs. KIA flying A-8/R2 blue 15 wrk nummer 681348.

    from JG 4 war diary // also interesting that Lobenwein also claimed a P-51 at 11.10 hrs in his Fw 190A-8/R2 from the same staffel.

    of course JG 4 claimed 41 victories but this is ridiculous. and yes JG 300 lost more A/C than realized, a couploe pilots are unknown but in combat so either B-24 or P-51 actions.
     
  16. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    also JG 300 claimed 22 B-24's and 6 Mustangs to their tally for the Kassel mission.
     
  17. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Fred you know about the 1943 missions where the LW came up in force singles and twin engines during the Schweinfurth/Regensburg encounters and during the week of the Münster raid, etc.

    during late 1944 by September through December the LW was dwindling in the amount of S/E's it could send up literally being overpowered by the Us Mustang escorts.

    November 2nd 1944 is another mass of Sturmgruppen Fw 190A-8's attacking but also receiving too many losses. the huge mission on 26 November 44 was another where my cousin's 5./JG 301 was involved the whole JG scored 21 confirmed victories against the 491st and 445th bg's. // the LW JG originally put in claims for 56 kills, obviously way reduced....Schwarze tag für JG 301 it was. also for JG's 1 and 6 as well same date and mission.
     
  18. d.henry.g

    d.henry.g New Member

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    Several American fighters refueled in France, but Lamb was the only American fighter lost on the 9-27-44 mission to Kassel.
     
  19. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Greetings I have a copy of the operational map for the day the 361st fg was not alone in protecting the 445th bg, the 352nd and 4th fg for two were also involved and took part in the actions against JG 300 and JG 4. JG 3 Sturms had already slipped away.
     
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  20. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Fred follow up on the next days op the 8th AF two bomb groups really got hammered by two of the three Sturmgruppen, against the 303rd and 457th bg's. especially -- total chaos
     

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