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My fathers documents - am I missing anything?

Discussion in 'Military Service Records & Genealogical Research' started by KodiakBeer, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I'm hoping somebody can help me find any information I'm missing in looking over these documents. He's listed as a paratrooper, though he actually served in the 30th Division from Normandy onwards. He was injured in a training jump in England and had back problems off and on for the rest of his life, thus the transfer to infantry. I don't know if he was 101st or 82nd... I know the unit listed on the separation is just the "mustering out" unit.

    I've been slowly putting together his war record for years and I just thought some of the experts here might see something in these documents that I'm missing. He had a Silver Star among his effects, but that has gone missing over the years (my older brother is a PITA). The attached roster shows it, but his separation papers don't.


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  2. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Line 33 of the separation and honorable discharge contains the codes: CO (or GO?) 33 & 40 WD 45

    What might that be?
     
  3. Biak

    Biak Adjutant

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    The GO is General Order and the 33 & 40 I think are about particular medals awarded. War Department 1945. That's about all I can do, but I know we have some guys here who know a whole lot more.

    just found this:
    The GO 33 40 WD 45 were General Orders #33 and #40. They were issued by the War Department in 1945. They authorized the EAME Campaign Medal for service in the bronze star campaigns




    Had found another link that showed the GO33 was for the Victory Medal but Lou had already posted in another thread it was for the EAME. The GO 40 therefore would be for the wearing of the Bronze Star on the campaign ribbon/medal
     
  4. dobbie

    dobbie recruit

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    go to va.gov and download Standard Form 180, will be listed as SF180. On this, youll be able to request certified copies of his discharge, his personnel file and medical file. There will be instructions on how to apply for all of this on the form. My guess is that his personnel file will include what youre looking for, and it never hurts to have his medical file as well.
     
  5. Buten42

    Buten42 Member Patron  

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    You can also ask for a replacement set of medals and awards. This is still free for next of kin. They won't replace any foreign medals, but ask them to list any that he earned (like the French or Belgium Croix de Guerre) You can buy replacements of these on E-Bay or a military dealer.
     
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  6. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Thanks!

    I've already run through the system a few years ago. These documents and a few others were all that was available. I was hoping somebody might recognize something in these that I've missed.
     
  7. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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    If you have some $$ to throw around, you may want to consider hiring a researcher. They will look through morning reports and rosters to follow your father's service. They will very likely be able to tell you what unit he was in prior to the 30th. It won't be cheap, but once you get to a certain point, the research stops being free. ;)
     
  8. Earthican

    Earthican Member

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    His arrival date in England of 18 Sept 1943 would suggest he was with the 502d PIR which is also recorded as arrived in England on 18 Sept 1943. The 506th is recorded as 15 Sept 1943. The 501st, 507th and 508th have much different dates.

    The 101st Airborne arrived with the 502d assigned and the 506th attached in Sept 1943. The 82d Airborne returned to Northern Ireland in Dec 1943 with the 505th. The 504th returned in April 1944.

    He could also have arrived as a replacement but the 502d is a good place to start. Many rosters are available online, just not at the moment.
     
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  9. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Thank you!
     
  10. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I know the ASR Score is the infamous point score needed to rotate home after the war in Europe. He has 105, with the cut off (for going home) being 85. That just seems really high - does anyone have a list of how these points were awarded? I know time in theater and service were the basis, but they got additional points for awards and I can't any point score for various awards.
     
  11. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow

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  12. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Thanks! That's pretty comprehensive!

     
  13. Buten42

    Buten42 Member Patron  

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    Found this on Index to Army Silver Star Recipient in World War II
    It shows a SS for a Joseph F Rogan rather than Francis J. but I'll bet he went with his middle name.
    If that's him, he was with the 101st when he earned it.

    Rogan, Joseph F. HQ, 101st Airborne Division, G.O. No. 4 (1945)
     
  14. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    No, that's definitely not him. I'm sure he didn't see any action with the 101st. I *think* he got the Silver Star at Stavelot, the same place he was wounded. The problem I've run into with the 30th Division records is that as a National Guard Division it simply evaporated at the end of the war and most of the paperwork and records went into a black hole.

    I remember playing with the Bronze and Silver Stars when I was a kid. The Bronze Star, he said, was nothing. But the Silver Star was important to him. My older brother took that, along with some other items (most notably a huge Nazi flag with gold trim around the edge from the city hall in Magdeburg). Anyway, he put all that stuff into a box and lost it along the way.

    I (or actually, my son now) has his original Purple Heart, Bronze Star and some campaign medals, and I've put those on his "ruptured duck" discharge jacket along with the other awards that were sent by the gov, and the foreign awards that the Battalion, Regiment and Division won.

    My son with the jacket. I've since learned the regimental emblems are on the wrong place - I put them on the lapels instead of on the epaulettes.

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  15. Buten42

    Buten42 Member Patron  

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    The date he won the SS is what I was wondering about. The date dosen't show on the 117th roster nor his separation papers. I believe the 101st went back to England after the invasion to train for, what was Market Garden. Was thinking he hurt his back during training there and then went to the 117th.
    Thanks for the picture, very impressive uniform. I can see why you want to get his service record figured out. I don't see his jump wings that he earned.
    Just sent the paper on the separation--kinda long but tried to cover everything.
    Dave
     
  16. Natman

    Natman Member

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    I was wondering what you mean by "black hole" in reference to the unit records? Have you contacted the NARA and requested an index to the records for the 30th? I checked the Eisenhower Library index for 30th documents and it indicates they have approx. 3000 pages. The records at Eisenhower are supposed to be "extras" from NARA so it's pretty likely there are many more at College Park. It's free to request the index.

    As Tom indicated in post #7, it may be time to spend some money if you want to persue this further.
     
  17. Buten42

    Buten42 Member Patron  

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    Since he had a service related back injury that was a chronic condition after he got out, I'm sure the VA has a lot of records on him. The VA has also archives it's records at the NARA but it's in a different facility. I was able to get a lot of my brothers records from the VA and it wasn't all medically related--found a lot of stuff I didn't know before--and I even had his personnel records. Contact your regional VA office and they will help.
     
  18. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The lapel facings are the correct location for the Distinctive Unit Insignia. You have it correct in the photo.

    Contact Camp Blanding, FL also. I think there are some records there. Contact the museum.
    See if you can get in contact with Frank Towers through the museum. He is the historian for the 30th Infantry Division Veterans of WWII. He might be able to help you. I looked at his online roster of men who served in WWII, I did not see your father's name, but that does not mean he did not serve with the division.
     
  19. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    No, and I think I'll follow your advice. What I meant about the "black hole" is that the regular army units stayed together and there is a continuity in the records - awards, reports, paperwork still in the pipeline got finished. The National Guard units, not so much... The Official history describes the demobilization as a "disintegration" and so there was no follow-up to much of the routine paperwork, especially on individuals. I suspect that guys who were short on points in the Spring of 45 fought like hell to get their awards paperwork finished - guys like my dad with 105 points, probably didn't bother.

    I have the official histories of each regiment and most of the attached battalions (AT, Artillery, 743rd Tank Battalion) and I've gleaned an enormous amount of reports, maps, data from oldhickory30th.com, but records on my father specifically, have only turned up the documents in the OP.

    For example, my father was shot on 29 December in or near Stavelot, a few days after all German units had been cleared west/north of the Ambleve river. The only action reported for that date in the 1st Battalion was a night scouting expedition across the river where they took a couple of (unnamed) casualties. Was he with those guys? Or was it something else entirely - a sniper perhaps? I do know it was a gunshot wound because he showed me where the bullet had entered and exited his chest muscles - not a serious wound, in fact he was "RTD'd" after bandaging and I remember him saying it happened in the "Bulge." I would like to know the circumstances of that wound.

    He also had shrapnel wounds in his legs, from (I think he said) a German mortar. He said his hands or fingers had been broken when a house fell on him during an artillery barrage. I think many GI's had similar minor wounds that were probably just treated by a medic and the paperwork for a PH never went through, or wasn't even submitted.

    He died when I was fifteen and wasn't interested enough back then to ask many questions. I've been able to verify most of the stories I remember in a general way by going through various records. He said that they had picked up and used them German "Buck Rogers" rifles (the STG 44) in the battle of the bulge and I was told by many vets that it was impossible, never happened, prohibited... Then I found a photo of a 30th Division GI at La Glieze carrying an STG 44. He told me about them "crazy engineers" launching trolley cars loaded with explosives into a German city and I could find no such record, even with the help of unofficial old hickory historian Warren Watson. Then, six months ago I found a photo taken at Aachen of some "crazy engineers" launching trolley cars loaded with explosives down into the city.
    There are dozen or so stories like that, that I've been able to verify from different sources.

    It's just frustrating that even company level reports rarely mention individuals other than who was in charge. Battalion and Regimental reports get even shorter and by the time you get to the Division you generally get one line if anything at all.
     
  20. Buten42

    Buten42 Member Patron  

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    I have wondered which was correct for a long time. I have many WWII books and the pictures show them in both locations. I haven't been able to find a regulation that addresses it. I agree with Jeff--their just fine where they are.
     

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