My WW2 Handgun Collection

If you like that magazine, I found the entire collection in 12 volumes as issued by Atlas in 1986 at our local flea market . It cost me less than 1 euro per volume to have thousands of beautiful pictures displayed. The weight of such a pile of books is impressive and I had a hard time to drag it to my car.

 

The P38 was the first DA/SA pistol and set the tone for just about all military and police sidearms for the middle and late 20th Century. I don't know why they chose a single column magazine unless it was a patent issue with the Browning P35 which preceded it by a few years? Or maybe it was simply a weight/size consideration?

 

Martin: Thanks. I'm quite happy with the way these pictures turned out. Taking a good gun picture is more difficult than you'd think.

Keith: I've seen people make the claim on a couple forums that since the double stack idea was so new there were reliability issues with the early Hi-Power magazines (difficulty getting /maintaining the proper spring strength or something like that). Assuming this is true I'd guess this is why Walther went with a single stack design. Size and weight may have been considerations but I'm not sure. I haven't read into it.

 

Time for another installment. This is perhaps the most interesting handgun in my collection. A 1944 Colt M1911A1.

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Background:

At the turn of the 20th century there were multiple competing handgun designs. The semiautomatic pistol was very much a new and largely untried technology. In addition to revolvers, there were vastly different semiautomatic designs like the Luger, Borchardt C93, Mauser C96, Mannlicher M94 and Colt M1900. The US Army showed interest in a semiautomatic pistol around the turn of the century. Unlike the current designs where were chambered in 9mm or less, due to experiences in the Philippines (where .38 calibre handguns proved insufficient to stop doped-up Moro guerrillas) the Army demanded that the new service pistol be "no less than .45 caliber". John Browning, a prolific arms designer, designed what was to become known simply as the "1911" to meet this requirement. Several entries were submitted to the 1906-1910 service pistols trials - with the Browning design emerging as the winner. The pistol was formally adopted in 1911 as the M1911 (Model of 1911), and used a short recoil locked-breach operating system with a swinging link and locking lugs. The pistol was chambered in .45ACP and had a 7 round magazine.

The M1911 was a popular gun and proved to be extremely reliable and durable. 70,000 saw service in WW1. The interwar period saw the introduction of the M1911A1 which was essentially the same as the M1911 but with a few "ergonomic" changes such as a shorter trigger and arched mainspring housing. The M1911A1 was the standard US sidearm during WW2, and nearly 2 million were produced. The pistol -- unmodified -- continued to serve through Korea and Vietnam. By the late 1970s branches of the US military began to show interest in a new "more modern" design and eventually settled on the Beretta 92 (based in large part on the Walther P38 I showed earlier), which was adopted as the M9 in 1985. At this time the M1911A1 began to be phased out after nearly 75 years of continuous service, but still remains in use to this day by some special operations units.

The 1911 design was, of course, extremely popular with civilian, law enforcement and military users around the world and remains so to this day. The 1911 and its variants is probably the most produced pistol in history, as its operating system became the most popular type for semiautomatics. It is truly the iconic semiautomatic design.

My Pistol

My M1911A1 was built by Colt in early 1944. During WW2, M1911A1s were produced by Colt, Ithaca, Remington Rand and Union Switch and Signal. US&S produced the least, and are generally the most desirable out of these 4. Singer (the sewing machine company) made around 500. This pistol is all period-correct. I can't say with certainty whether its all matching since most parts were not stamped with the serial number. This pistol has not been refurbished. Most of the WW2-issued M1911A1s were refurbished at one of 5 government arsenals at the end of the war so that they could continue in service and were stamped with either a two or three character arsenal abbreviation. When refurbished, the parts were mismatched -- pistols were disassembled, reusable (non-worn) parts thrown into bins and then complete pistols were assembled from these. Most M1911A1s out there have parts from a variety of manufacturers.

Not only does my pistol have all period-correct Colt parts, the wear on all components is uniform, it has not been reparkerized (refinished) and does not have an arsenal refurbishment stamp on it. This is - to the best of my knowledge - an untouched WW2 pistol. You can tell from the wear that it has indeed seen significant use. This is also a complete "rig". It came with a period-correct spare magazine and more importantly a 1943 Boyt M3 shoulder holster that was popular with officers, paratroopers, tankers and pilots. The wear on the inside of the holster is consistent with holster wear on the pistol, so I have no reason to believe that this is not the original "rig" it saw service with. I'd really like to know the full history of this gun!

The photos below include the holster, spare magazine, a box of 1945 .45ACP, an M1 Garand clip and a US 3rd Army patch.

The ubiquitous WW2 American load-out -- M1 Garand and an M1911A1. You can definitely tell the pistol has seen more than "a bit" of use.


Profile view. Note the wear on the front of the slide. The M3 is on the left, and spare magazine on the right. The M3 holster itself is worth a couple hundred bucks.


Despite the wear, the finish is still a pleasing brownish-gray tone associated with parkerizing (a tough phosphate coating). Its nice to have a undoubtedly period-correct piece that saw combat, but isn't completely worn to sh*t. No doubt some of the wear to the finish is from the holster. The holster is leather, and the salts eventually start to wear down the parkerizing if the pistol is stored in it for long periods of time. I leave the pistol in the safe, and have the holster hanging on my wall.


How does it shoot?

Despite the fact that this has "been there, done that" it shoots surprising well. The barrel is worn but by no means shot out, with around 80% remaining. It shoots just as well as my 2011 Remington R1 (essentially a new-production bare-bones M1911A1) but not quite as well as my SIG 1911. The M1911A1 is a hefty gun, and although firing a big .45 slug the recoil is quite manageable. Its a lot of fun to shoot. If you will, its a slow "punch" rather than the fast "slap" of a 9mm or .40. I don't have any range photos. Since this is far from mint, I'm not at all concerned about running a couple boxes of ammo through it at the range. Regardless of how it shoots, the M1911A1 is THE iconic handgun of the 20th century, and it is a real honour to have one in original condition that saw service in the 20th century's largest conflict.

 

I really love that Colt GP!!!! Honest wear but still in a very good condition!!! Luverly!!!!!!

 

I'll second that - a great piece of history.......

 

very well engineered as A1 was still in USMC use in the 80s....as stated before, we were using ''old'' [ who knows how old ] 45s and they still shot well....of course they got a good cleaning regularly...I don't recall ever having a jam.....the range was very near the beach, so after shooting,cleaning,etc, we'd grab a six, and chill out on the beach....what more could you want??!!....lucky you George....

 

Out of salutes again... We were still shooting WWII era 1911a1s in the 80's, in the Coast Guard. Those were mixed parts "Frankenstein" guns, but they worked just fine.

The designation "Remington" for the WWII era 1911a1 causes endless confusion. In fact, the manufacturer was Remington Rand, a typewriter manufacturer with no ties to the firearms manufacturer, Remington Arms. That's made more confusing because the actual Remington Arms made 1911s in WWI.

One of the things I find interesting about the design is that today nearly all civilian pistols are made without the arched mainspring housing adopted by the army in 1924. Nearly everyone finds the original grip more ergonomic. Browning had it right from the beginning.

 

Good point about Remington. I updated my previous post. As for the arched mainspring housing, I actually like it better.

 

I *think* because the army (and everyone else) back then taught a one handed shooting technique, the arched housing forced your hand to keep the grip safety depressed during recoil. If your hand was sweaty or gloved, the grip could slip enough to release the grip safety. There's also the "limp wristing" factor which can cause the gun to jam if you don't have a firm grip. The arched housing fixed that. People shoot two-handed today so those things are no longer a factor. Today, it's just about the ergonomics. Some people like vanilla, some chocolate...

 

Keith: I just checked one of my books. Joe Poyer in "The Model 1911 and Model 1911A1 Military and Commercial Pistols" states that the flat mainspring housing on the M1911 caused the "pistol to rock up in the hand during firing". I have to pick up a copy of Charles Clawson's comprehensive M1911 book at some point and see what it says at some point, but they're quite pricey (200 bucks and up).

I've read on a few forums that the typical soldier shot low with the M1911, and the arched mainspring housing encouraged a higher grip that led to the POI moving up. Of course, this was on a forum and no sources were cited so take it with a grain of salt. Your idea seems equally valid to me and is related to what Poyer says.

 

I think Poyer and I are saying the same thing in different ways. My input on that (and probably Poyer's) comes from Colonel Jeff Cooper. Cooper was the one who popularized the "modern technique of the pistol" and made the two handed Isosceles and Weaver grips universal. He waxed eloquent in the 60's and 70's gun magazines on the history of the 1911 pistol, an invention he thought rated right up there with fire and the wheel.

 

I hope you don't mind me adding a photo to illustrate one reason why the .45 generates such loyalty.

View attachment 22144

 

Ah, the good old "9 vs .45" debate.

The answer? .45ACP all the way, and twice on Sundays.

 

I could argue either side of that with modern hollowpoints, but with military FMJ's the .45 wins every time.

 

From one iconic gun to the other. The Luger.

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Background:

As mentioned previously, the Luger was one of the first practical semiautomatic pistols available. After service in the Austrian Army, Georg Luger worked for Borchardt and was associated with the design of the C93 (a very early semiautomatic). Seeing the potential for improvements, he left and made his own design. Completed in 1898, like the C93, Luger's design used an interesting toggle-lock system with a "hinge" or "knee". When fired, the recoil of barrel pushes on the toggle assembly. The toggle hinges upwards, opening the the chamber and ejecting the cartridge. The toggle then returns to its original position and chambers the next round. The Luger was first adopted by Switzerland in 1900 in 7.65mm and was adopted by the German Navy in 1904. Finally, in 1908 the Luger was adopted as the standard sidearm of the German Army in 1908 and was assigned the designed "Pistole P08". The P08 was chambered in 9mm (9x19mm -- a round invented by Georg Luger himself), had a 4" barrel and used an 8 round magazine. An interesting variant was the "Artillery Luger" with a 7.8" barrel and shoulder stock which was an attempt to provide WW1 troops such as machine gunners and artillerymen a weapon with more accuracy than the standard sidearm without the weight of a rifle or carbine.

The P08 Luger saw service in both WW1 and WW2, and became the stereotypical German sidearm. The design remained unchanged to the end. As highly-precise, high-tolerance piece of machinery, the Luger proved susceptible to jamming unless kept very clean. Still, the Luger was an accurate and reliable pistol if properly maintained. Although intended to be replaced by the Walther P38 early in WW2, due to demand the Luger continued in service. German military production of the Luger ended in 1942 although I've seen it stated that some production for the Luftwaffe continued through 1945. In addition to fairly widespread military use with Germany, Switzerland, Holland and Finland, a large number of "contract" Lugers were made. Buyers included the militaries of Argentina, Bulgaria, Portugal, Persia and even Imperial Russia. Today, these contract Lugers are rare and in high demand. As stated previously, the Luger also unsuccessfully competed against the M1911 for the US Army contract. The Luger proved to be popular in the civilian market as well, with commercial production occuring in the early 1900s and in the interwar period. In total, around 3 million Lugers of all types were made in its 42 years of production.

The Luger was a technological dead-end, as no other firearm produced in significant numbers used its operating system. Still, its one of the most aesthetically pleasing pistols out there and in high demand among collectors for its historical significance. Postwar, American gun designer Bill Ruger copied the Luger's grip angle for his Ruger Standard .22 pistol, which has become one of the most common .22 pistols in the world.

My Pistol:

My Luger is a typical 1920s commercial model. Despite being produced for the "civilian" market, many of these saw military service in WW2. There's nothing particular noteworthy about it. Unlike my other pistols (or even my rifles, for that matter), this is not "all matching" and has a variety of parts from different years and manufacturers on it. Unlike the Americans or British, the Germans were very picky about stamping the serial number on every part possible. On some rifles even the screws are stamped! Its far from mint, and has definitely seen some use (note that the back of the grip has chipped from excessive use of the safety). For this reason, I'm inclined to believe it saw extensive service during the war.

Originally, P08s had a 4" barrel. Due to an arbitrary decision of the Canadian gun laws, pistols with barrels less than 4.1" inches in length are deemed "prohibited" and cannot be acquired unless the buyer is "grandfathered" to buy pistols with short barrels (i.e.: you had a pistol with <4.1" barrel when the law was made). Unfortunately I am not in this category. As a result, to get this one I had to get it re-barreled. Right now it has a 4.5" barrel. Although not original this is the only way I can own a functional one. Its a sad fact that due to closed-minded bureaucratic decisions historical pieces like this have to be irreparably changed. As a sidenote, due to this dumb law I'm not able to buy any of the interesting German military "pocket pistols" like the PP/PPK or Mauser M1934. No consideration is made for collectors.

These photos include a couple boxes of WW2 German 9mm ammo, an unissued 2nd class War Merit Cross with Swords and an SA dagger brought back from Germany by a distant family member.

The Luger is in my opinion one of the finest looking guns ever made.


Profile view. The knurled "knob" at the top towards the back of the pistol is the "knee" of the toggle assembly. I should have taken a photo with the toggle open -- its an interesting action. The safety lever is at the back. Right now its in "fire" position.


Its extremely nice to hold, and due to the grip angle if you hold the pistol in your hand and extended your arm out the pistol's barrel naturally points parallel to your arm. Unless you're familiar with pistols its a bit hard to explain and I'm struggling to find the proper words to describe it, but a more "vertical" grip the barrel tends to point "low".


How does it shoot?

The Luger is picky about ammo. German military ammunition was loaded "hot", and light loads will not cycle the action reliably. Additionally, it requires FMJ ammo -- any other type will not work reliably. When shooting 124gr FMJ I have not encountered significant issues apart from an occasional stovepipe on average every 100 rounds or so. I was surprised by how sensitive the Luger is to dirt. I've taken this to the range a lot (probably 20 times, 1500 rounds or so) and didn't clean it for the first few months. I eventually had the toggle seize open because of powder residue! It makes you wonder how it functioned as well as it did in the trenches (dirt was such a issue that the Germans issued it with a tight-fitting "clamshell" holster to keep it clean). However, if you feed it what it likes and keep it clean it shoots great. As I said, the grip feels natural and you can typically draw and line it up close to the target even with your eyes closed.

Recoil is sharp but not excessive. The toggle system is very interesting -- coupled with the hair trigger the action is extremely fast, and you can easily empty an entire magazine in under 5 seconds. I've never timed it, but I think I've fired off 8 rounds in 2-3 seconds. As you expect there is quite a bit of muzzle climb if you shoot this fast but its fun to show up the guys with their $4000+ race guns. I have no target pictures for this one, but the Luger shoots consistently shoots to the left. Its not a big deal -- at 20 yards its about 1-2" off center. This is likely due to the rebarreling -- the barrel is threaded in like a rifle, and the front sight has limited adjustments. However, the groups are tight -- better than the VIS35 on the first page. A Luger always turns heads at the range, and I'm always surprised by how many people have never actually seen one before. As you might guess, I really like the Luger and I'm looking to pick up an all-matching (except the barrel, of course) WW2 production one for my collection at some point. There's an interesting Finnish-issued Luger that was arsenal refurbed with a Finnish 4.75" barrel for sale that I'm eyeballing, but I haven't decided yet.

 

Lovely ! Mine too is 'not matching' . I know there's understandably a lot of 'sniffiness' about this among collectors, but as I've said before, it's my Luger and I love it ! As a schoolboy, I was lucky enough to have been allowed to fire a Third Reich example at the range and remember it as the most comfortable handgun to fire on that day. IMPO it's up there with icons such as the Leica camera ; a marvel of design and workmanship ( even if not maybe the best thing to be using on the Eastern Front... )

 

If it was all matching you'd be reluctant to shoot it much.

 

Martin: Yours is deactivated, I take it? IIRC there was one of those "top 10" contests a few years ago for products built and designed during the 20th century that had the "optimal" blend of ingenuity and functionality but were aesthetically pleasing. The Luger was the only weapon (and military-related item) to make the list. I tried to Google it but I can't find it. I recall the Leica being on it as well.

Keith: Yes, that's a good point. I still wouldn't hesitate to shoot it but I'd likely use it more moderately than I use this one. Good excuse for a second one!

Biak: I can't imagine anything like that happening with any law enforcement officer up here nowadays. The first few times I shot a semiautomatic I found a 9mm more "accurate" than a .45, but I don't see much of a difference between the two now. 9mm has less kick when you shoot it so generally you can get the next shot lined up faster but that's about it. That being said, .45 is a lot more fun to shoot.