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Mythbusting - The AK is NOT a copy of the MP44

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by DarkLord, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    I'm not exactly sure where this all started, but this is a myth and has been around for a very long time. Seems the West just couldn't buy the story, but as it turns it; the Sergeant really did invent a great rifle...with a LOT of help.

    The problem is, there is ZERO evidence on the rifle, and almost no evidence in historical records to support anything but the fact that Kalashnikov really did lead his team, and really was a rather talented firearms inventor.

    It is true that Schmeisser was imprisoned in Izhevsk when Kalashnikov was working on the AK, and he even was consulted on one occasion. But documents show Schmeisser wasn't very helpful at all, so they just didn't bother him anymore.

    I think the genius of the AK's design may have more to do with how the competition was ran, than any grand conspiracy. There were 4 competing teams, and at two separate occasions they allowed the teams to come together and inspect each competing design and incorporate anything they liked. I think that kind of cooperation is what lead to the AK.

    As for the rifle itself, there is pretty much NOTHING on/in the rifle that you can attribute to the MP44 other than the overall look and layout. The gas system, bolt locking, and trigger mechanism (these days called fire control group) are all directly copied from John Garand, not Schmeisser.
     
  2. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    The trigger mechanism is like that of the Browning A-5 (and Rem Model 8 and 81). Safety is like that of the Rem Model 8. Staggered detachable magazine was used in the C96.

    While Kalashnikov didn't invent everything, he did a great job combining some proven things with his own ingenuity. There's supposed to be a movie on him that's coming out soon.
     
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  3. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Here's a good look at them. The top pic is the StG44.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    The AK is the better rifle in every category with the exception of ease of manufacture. The stamped receiver of the MP44 is rather brilliant. Unfortunately the Russians just didn't have mass amounts of metal stamping equipment, so that much complex stamping just wasn't an option for them. I'll bet that's one part of the design they probably did want to copy but just couldn't. Something really brilliant about that receiver is the fact it's just common mild steel. No need for any high carbon or specialized alloyed steels, because Germany just didn't have much of the elements that go into the higher tech alloys.

    The receiver on the AK is stamped, but it's comparatively a very simple stamping...and even then, they weren't real happy with it, and decided to just make milled receivers when they needed to double production. There was a high reject rate on the stamped receivers (often attributed to welding), so they didn't want to mirror a very imperfect process when they added more factories. What they did have was...a great excess of conventional machine equipment, so they just made AK's with machined receivers at all the factories, and they were cool with that. A return to stamped receivers didn't happen until 1960, by then large production scale stamping equipment was available and affordable for the Soviets, so they went back to stamping.
     
  5. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I saw the movie and Kalashnikov made according to the film several prototypes before the final version. So it was not like put nice things together, he had to build a new kind of weapon
     
  6. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    Yeah, the process the Soviets developed was really brilliant, and the kind of process you could only pull off in something like the Soviet union. They had a set time, and they had progress milestones they had to meet. Each team had 4 engineers, and twice during the competition they got to inspect the competition's designs, and incorporate whatever they liked. It's a very smart way to come up with a great rifle design, and it really is.

    It should be noted however, when you look at the early prototypes, Kalashnikov had the vast majority of his rifle the first time out. He clearly started out in the right direction, and the Soviet process just assured his success.

    But further evidence of Kalashnikov's mechanical brilliance is the PK & PKM machinegun. That was almost all Kalashnikov and I think most would agree, it's one of the best GPMG's in the world. The man had some talent!
     
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  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Must agree. He was a dedicated and a talented man. He found a way to pass the problems and made a famous weapon. Usually you don´t get a second chance in the USSR but he did, maybe Stalin liked what he was doing...
     
  8. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I believe later versions of the AK did have a stamped receiver.
     
  9. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    Yes, it started in 1959 and was renamed the AKM (Avtomat Kalashnikova Modernizirovanniy )
     
  10. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    The Soviets and now Russians have an arms design school where the students learn the principles of firearms operation, engineering, ballistics.

    I have a Chinese copy of one of their textbooks. Too bad I can't read the stuff.
     
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  11. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    That's just smart!!!

    Once upon a time I was a writer for gun magazines. That position got me a private tour by one of the curators at the Springfield Armory, where I got to so much of the stuff that isn’t on display (the coolest of which was a belt fed FG-42!!). Anyhow…During the tour he informed me that him and one of the other curators teach small arms classes a couple of times per year to engineering students. Of course, there was MUCH more of that going on when Springfield Armory was still open and still a government armory, but I was delighted to hear that practice continues.
     
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  12. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    Springfield has been closed since the lockdown and they're taking advantage of it to install a fire suppression system and other upgrades into the building. I've made several pilgramages there myself. I'd love to go back there someday. I wasn't aware that they also instructed engineering students.

    Love that periscope rifle there. I was asked at TSJC if I heard of such a thing (students wanted to stump me). I told them that there was a hinged stock one at Springfield but that its predecessors were invented by the Yankees during the Civil War. The Yankees drilled a small hole into the stock into which they inserted a hand mirror. This allowed them to hold it over their trench and shoot an unwary Confederate. When they got real good, they would hit the bottom of the headlog and deflect the minie ball into the trench itself. The students weren't aware of that.

    A few years back a similar device was designed for the M-16/M-4 or AR-15 to allow the soldier to shoot around a corner (hold the gun around the corner w/out exposing his head) but I don't think it went into production though and I wanted one for fun. I know the Israelis have a similar gun that folds for shooting around the corner.
     
  13. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    Indeed they do, and it's rather clever. I did the first US magazine review of it for Guns magazine back in 2005-ish (my memory sucks).
     
  14. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    <i>Krummlauf</i>

    I would not want to shoot with this one for some reason....

    The Krummlauf (English: "curved barrel") is a bent barrel attachment for the Sturmgewehr 44 rifle developed by Germany in World War II. The curved barrel included a periscope sighting device for shooting around corners from a safe position.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Riter

    Riter Well-Known Member

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    Panzer or AFV defense weapon. I remember a GI finding one and thinking it was strange.
     

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