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New tank desgin ?

Discussion in 'Post-World War 2 Armour' started by Che_Guevara, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. Che_Guevara

    Che_Guevara New Member

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    The number of people in urban areas increases and a clash between equal nations is improbable. So the war of the future would take place in urban areas against insurgents and the enemy of the modern tank would be IEDs and anti-tank weopons carried by a soldier. How should the ultimative tank look like to counter insurgents in a city. Large calibre guns with HE-ammunition, slow, heavy armoured many crenels, a personal carrier to clear the sector or all in all a rolling fortress, which is highly armoured and could carry troops. Is this possible or senseless ?
     
  2. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    more armour on the bottom and top of AFVs - and particularly more shaped armour to deflect blasts from below. And probably some investment into tracked & wheeled vehicles able to run with the loss of various wheels or even tracks.

    Better protection against flame-based weaponry.

    Spaced armour?
     
  3. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    I would guess that its really a none starter. The problem with urban combat is the short range and availablity of cover. Really no mater how good a look out you keep, the ambusher is likely to get a shot off. The mobile fortress idea runs into the problem that such a big heavy system will be difficult to get to the right place (narrow streets anyone). I think modern tanks with grills fitted are the best bet and only send them into urban areas when your pretty sure you'll need the extra punch.



    If your looking for the perfect armour for urban areas I would have said your talking about some kind of combat walker, immune to small arms but not much bigger than a man. But that of course takes us into the realm of my faviourite, science fiction.
     
  4. Hoosier phpbb3

    Hoosier phpbb3 New Member

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    Just buy a bunch of Toyota trucks... the durn-things are bullet-proof!
    :roll:

    Tim
     
  5. Varyag

    Varyag New Member

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    Fighting insurgents in urban areas is one situation where a remote-controlled AFV probably would be the best option. Small armoured vehicles equipped with TV-cameras and IR-sensors, and with the capability of being equipped with different weapon-systems in field.
     
  6. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    I supose you could implement some sort of netting/grill to activate HEAT rounds prior to impact.

    You see these on US vehicles now and of course there is our infamous bed spring thread that Russians used.

    But as has been said, there is little you can do to protect against modern compact AT weapons where the attacked is provided 99% cover to easily get within 50 feet of the target.

    FNG
     
  7. Siberian Black

    Siberian Black New Member

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    A flamethrower with that napalm stuff from 'Twenty-eight weeks later' in internal tanks.
     
  8. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Either rapid-firing smallish calibre cannon (30mm or so) or large-calibre low-velocity gun (much like the early Pz.IV) would be ideal armament. Plus plenty of machine guns for infantry suppression. I have seen Israeli tanks with 4 or 5 mgs (including the coaxial one).

    Flamethrower varients would be useful, but I'm not sure how legal they are these days.
     
  9. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    the recent fighting in chechnia , south lebanon and irak indicate the folly of using heavy armor in build up environment against determined opposition ,

    if it is done , heli cover , infantry support and using the tanks as fire point for over-reach are the least costly option
    the U.S. had a lucky run getting in and out of bagdad in spring 2003 against the demoralised and disorganised iraky army in " thunder runs "
    also known as " Hello madam , bang bang , good bye madam "
    proving the eternal truth that if one's do something potentially dumb , better do it really fast :grin:

    .
     
  10. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    edited your quote :wink:
     
  11. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    Thanks Ricky ,

    .
     
  12. majorwoody10

    majorwoody10 New Member

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    - in ww2 the us army eto adopted the sp howitzer at the side of the apt building plan ...roll up to apt block from the side (few windows )
    ,blow a huge hole with a feild piece ,run in with infantry ,all the would be fighters in the building are dead or knocked silly ...fairly easy mop up ..next building shoot through the same hole again ,blow out next wall... repeat ..of course any civillians need to bug out if they see its gonna be a house to house fight ..they would pick up on it quick once they see the 155mm bark at the end of a block...
    i think modern robotics should be able to deal with the urban ambush on the cheap ..a crawler robo cop with heat ,infra red ,grenades ,mg ,remote control or independent ...this is the weed wacker of the future..of course it will kill civillians sometimes ...but then ,we already kill civillians sometimes ....they NEED TO BUG OUT or go to the cellar like the french,dutch ,belgian ,german civillians did ..if achmed fires his rpg from a building with civies inside , its on achmed ,not on the afv commander,right?
     
  13. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    Interestingly , the red army used SU152 for taking Berlin , same modus operandi , don't go down the streets until the side buildings have been cleared , if there is resistance , blast the whole block

    The traditional rules of war were that any city who surrender to the enemy is under its protection , if it has to be taken by storm , all bets are off .

    there is more and more robots to scouts in use and deployment , some a el cheapo one man units ,other are developed by the pentagon
    http://www.defenselink.mil/advisories/a ... soryid=110

    Dogs have never been much of a success , soldiers get too much attached to their mutts and would rather get the new guy killed first ! :roll:

    .
     
  14. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    The British did the same thing, but used Grenades to knock a hole in the wall.

    If we can find a way to do something on the cheap... :grin:
     
  15. Siberian Black

    Siberian Black New Member

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    one of those 'super-morters" the germans used on the eastern front.

    400-something mm calibre, only had four of them. Two were named 'Adam' and 'Eve', forget what the other two were called
     
  16. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Detcord.
     
  17. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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    I seem to remember a " Thor "mortar at the taking of Sevastopol in early 43
    it could crack the biggest blockaus wide open .

    .
     
  18. Siberian Black

    Siberian Black New Member

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    'Thor' was one of the others (dammit! Still can't remember what they were called)
     
  19. jeaguer

    jeaguer New Member

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  20. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

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    Brummbar r smith?
     

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