question about film saving private ryan

LCA is roughly the American LCVP, IIRC the LCA was a tad longer.

The LCP(R) was the precursor to the LCVP. The LCP(R)'s bow exit was narrower than the cargo area, so you could not get a jeep in or out by the bow, the LCVP kept the width uniform, so a jeep could be driven in and out.

 

The original Higgins boat had no ramp at all; troops had to climb over the sides. The LCPR featured a narrow bow ramp, but it was constrained by the two machine gun tubs forwards. In the LCVP the gun tubs were moved aft, so the ramp could be the same width as the cargo compartment.

 

Yes, in terms of the internal continuity of the film, you are correct. However, I don't believe the British vets are upset about the internal continuity.

 

Yeah I'm up on American landing craft, I'm not as familiar with the British stuff. I thought the LCA had a narrower ramp like the LCP(R), not a full width ramp like the LCVP.

I fully agree.

I don't know that that's the case. While the boat Capt. Miller and his men are in is definately a mike boat, (it looks like a Mk. 3 model, and it appears a second one is also present) you can see several P boats in the background and the boat in the background where he's stunned is definately an LCVP. They may have opted for the main boat to be a mike boat because it's bigger and leaves more room in the bow for camera crew and such to film the interior shots (about 4' wide and 14' longer for the 3 model). The boat mix would still be accurate for an APA though because usually carried 2 mike boats and 21 "P" boats.

 

Sorry, but there are no such things as accidents when Stephen Speilberg makes a film. The difference in interpretation is more about the appetites of the American) viewing public. In 1960 TLD showed the US as the leader of the United Nations, the alliance which liberated Europe. By the 1990s SPR gave the public D Day as an all american effort, without event a token ally.

Spielberg found the time to put an anachronistic slur about the British making tea in front of Caen. Given that the men making the comment could not even find Private Ryan there was not need for them to comment about a bigger picture.

In SPR the British make tea in front of caen while the US Paratroops fight off Tiger tanks. The real actions depicted in the last ha;lf hour of SPR did take place, but on the 2nd Army sector. There is a line of graves in Bayeux CWC who perished on 11th June fighting off panther and Tiger tanks at St. Pierre and hill 103, and another of in who fought off the 12 SS 9-11 June.

All the quibbling about the markings of the boats are trivia compared with the plot. SPR is not about a platoon of the 101st, its a mickey mouse patrol led by a Ranger Captain tasked to undertake a mission that would have been better performed by G1 Clerks or the padre service.

 

Note to MoD, Next time when Spielberg asks for 1000s of soldiers for a major scene in one of his movies...Give them to him, it will save much grief later on.

 

Good one Takao, that's just too funny!

 

Hmm. I'm beginning to get the impression that you didn't like the film.

 

What Price said. That nearly made me spit out my coffee. :lol:

 

Sheldrake:
The real actions depicted in the last ha;lf hour of SPR did take place, but on the 2nd Army sector. There is a line of graves in Bayeux CWC who perished on 11th June fighting off panther and Tiger tanks at St. Pierre and hill 103,

Why do you say it was this action depicted?

 

Perfect!

 

But it was a great shoot'em up!

 

Bit of googling found this on the landing craft questions


Notes
The ten LCVPs used in Saving Private Ryan were found stored in the desert at Palm Springs, California and were then transported to St. Austell, Cornwall, England were they were overhauled by Robin Davies of Square Sail. In order to give the appearance of more landing craft, each LCVP had different hull numbers painted on each side.

Fact vs Fiction
In reality, the 2nd and 5th Ranger Battalions did not use LCVPs, but instead went to shore in British LCAs (Landing Craft, Assault). In the film itself two modified LCMs (Landing Craft, Mechanized) were used for the Charlie Company Rangers, with the ten LCVPs being used in the background.

http://www.sproe.com/l/lcvp.html

 

This one was outside a Museum at the north end of the Caen canals and outside a 6-story German command center. I do not remember if this was used on D-Day.





Located outside this Museum...... That's a German 88mm cannon.

 

1) SPR was not 'about' D-Day. It was about a 'mission' that was given to some American soldiers after they safely made it ashore. We saw the scene where Capt Miller was given his 'mission' and he later says, "Well, then this is my mission''.

2) In the book "D-Day The Battle For Normandy" by Antony Beevor (which I just finished), he makes it clear that many of the other forces (US and Canadian mostly) would be frustrated when Brit soldiers suddenly stoped to 'have a cup of tea'. I read several of these exerpts out loud to my Kiwi wife because to the English/etc a cup of tea is a perfect reward for a bit of work, or to smooth over a rough situation. Beevor relates that tea was being brewed, right ON the beaches and while under fire! Pmp40fire:

3) Capt Miller's mission was to go find a certain soldier because he was the last surving son from one family. It took place right after D-Day and was based loosely on 'fact'. After a USN ship was sunk in the Pacific taking the lives of all five sons from one family (the Sullivans), there were efforts to make sure that a last son was not lost in combat with at least a few other families later in the war.

And Speilberg just loves his P-51 Mustangs! We see them in SPR, Band of Brothers and even Empire of the Sun. His Dad was a radio operator on B-25s in the China-Burma theater and that gave him his love of WW 2 aircraft.....

 

The 'fact' would be the story of the Niland Brothers.

The Sullivan brothers were just one of several, albeit the most famous, groups of brothers that died during the war. Although their deaths did have an effect of the implementation of the "sole survivor policy", this did not become official until 1948. Still, there were occasional cases where the sole surviving brother was taken out of action and returned home. The most immediate action taken because of the deaths of the Sullivans brothers was the strict enforcement of family members serving on the same ship, up until that time, the US Navy had been very lax in it's enforcement. IIRC, there were several sets of brothers who died together, as well as, several more where only one brother was killed, a few sets of twins, and one or two fathers & sons, when the USS Arizona exploded at Pearl Harbor.

 

Given that the whole premise of the plot is that the paratroops didn't even know where they own soldiers were, it is surely nonsense to allow them to pass comments on the British being held up in front of Caen 30 miles away?

Speilberg's scene angers me because he put the scene in was to pander to the late C20th US perception that they did all the fighting and the British and Canadians just sat and made tea. This is simply untrue and not reflected in the casualty rates, which as a % casualty and fatality rates for the 12 and 21 Army Group were within a fraction of a % point of each

The reason that the British did not take Caen on D Day or until D +35 was because they, unlike the US Paratroops, actually did face Panther and Tiger tanks. The climax of the film with beleaguered allied troops attacked from all directions by german armour and infantry did not happen to the 82nd or 101st. It did happen to the candian and British troops in various villages facing the 12 SS and Pz Lehr Divisions which did their best to throw the allies into the sea. Soldiers in my Regiment and from my country fought and died against a tough and determined enemy.

Their memory deserves to be preserved accurately as much as the courage of the American soldiers who did their bit. A few weeks ago we all commemorated remembrance Day - the central theme is to remember them - not just the soldiers that Hollywood feel make good box office.

 

Thanks for the extra info. The USN later named a ship after the Sullivans....

 

Ummmmm.... SPR really had nothing to do with US Paratroops. There was a scene where the guys walked by a crashed US glider though.

The 101st and 82nd Airborne made up a pretty small % of the total US troops both on D-Day and the next day or two. They had specific, targeted missions wheras the beach troops were to take and hold large areas of land. Other than tiny villages like St Mere Eglese, Airborne troops did not attack and secure larger cities like Caen. It took Caen being bombed into rubble before it could be taken...... Antony Beevor's book on D-Day goes into excrutiating detail about Caen.

I agree, all Allied troops who died in The Battle for Normandy should be remembered....

 

you 're absolutely right...coming from the foggy , splashy sea, the skipper should have sighted a german machine gunner in a dug in tobruk pit from many miles a distance.
Why he didnot turn around and complain to his superiors and map planners is incomprehensible. Surely the lives of 20 men in his boat is much more valuable than the pride of a desk general or admiral.