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Redistribution Extract

Discussion in 'Military Service Records & Genealogical Research' started by KMZgirl, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    I recently noticed something on dad's paperwork when he returned stateside. I am hoping you can help me with the abbreviations.

    Fol EM ASF reld unasgd Co 2 1817 SCU this sta and trfd in gr to orgns San Anonio, Texas
    WP o/a 19 March 45 EDCMR 22 March 45 AGNA
    1831 SCU MP DET

    *John H Kimzey s/Sgt. MCO 010 MOS 356/677 ATF
    * in charge

    Father told me he was an MP/train guard in San, Antonio when he returned and until he was discharged.

    I know he entered in as part of Company H 357th Infantry, at some point was Casual Detachment 8925 B. But, his campaigns only say India/Burma, so he didn't stay in 357th long. Thanks for any help you can give.
     
  2. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow Patron  

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    I think I may have a good share of it for you. If I have made any errors, no doubt someone will offer a correction.


    Fol EM ASF reld unasgd Co 2 1817 SCU this sta
    Following Enlisted Men Army Service Forces released unassigned Company 2 1817 Service Command Unit
    this station

    and trfd in gr to orgns San Anonio, Texas
    and transferred in group to organization(s) San Antonio, Texas

    WP o/a 19 March 45 EDCMR 22 March 45 AGNA
    will proceed on or about 19 March 1945 effective date of change on Morning Report 22 March 1945 [AGNA]

    1831 SCU MP DET
    1831 Station Complement Service Command Unit Military Police detachment


    I put AGNA in brackets as I was not entirely sure about that one and didn't want to just throw out a guess. Hopefully someone else will have some input there.


    EDIT: I had been debating whether "Station Complement Unit" or "Service Command Unit" was correct. After giving it a think, I decided "Service Command Unit" was more likely to be correct.
     
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  3. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    You figured out way more than I did! Thanks! Am I right in assuming he was probably transferred into the Company 2 1817 Service Command Unit to come home to U.S., then once he got here, he was re-assigned to the 1831 SCU Military Police detachment in Texas? I am working backwards to try and figure out what group he was with before coming home. His discharge papers say he departed (from service outside the U.S.) Dec 9, 1944 and arrived in U.S. Feb 1, 1945. So, does anyone have any advice on my next step? Thanks so much. I know he was in Casual Detachment 8925 b prior to this, but not sure if there is anything in between.
     
  4. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow Patron  

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  5. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    Papers are slowly starting to make more sense, but I still have a long way to go. Fortunately, dad saved a lot of "clues." It looks like even though most of the units are ETO, he was actually CBI/IBT, when not stateside. I've been reading books and googling a lot. I've found him training army rangers (1942 Fort Shafter declassified Hawaii video) and I've even found what I believe to be a picture of him in the Spearhead book. My end game is to prove dad was a ranger, get him added to a roster, get his bronze star and other awards he said he earned but never received, This is a gratifying journey for me. I really appreciated all the help this forum has given me.
     
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  6. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    UPDATE: I hired Golden Arrow and they were unable to find what unit dad was with in the CBI. It looks like he was attached to Co 2 1817 SCU to come home. Anyone know how to figure out where Co 2 1817 SCU was before hitting the US? Thanks!
     
  7. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    AGNA is Adjutant General...something, possibly National Army, but that is a World War I term replaced by AUS. Another possibility is Naming Authority.
     
  8. Manila84

    Manila84 New Member

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    KMZgirl, can you share any additional info from his discharge paperwork that might give clues? I'm guessing Golden Arrow tried to trace him back using paperwork (morning reports) of his transfer into 1817 SCU - and there was no indication of where he came from?
     
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  9. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    Sorry, just now seeing your response. I have a lot of info figured out, but not his primary unit he spent 25 months with in the CBI.

    John H Kimzey 37 106 810
    DOB 11/07/1914, Magnet Cove, Arkansas

    3 1/2 months PVT INF BASIC TRAINING MOS 521
    6 months SGT MACHINE GUN NCO MOS 604
    25 months S/SGT FOREMAN LABOR MOS 356
    7 months S/SGT MILITARY POLICEMAN 677


    March 14, 1942 Entered Army @ Ind Sta Cp Joseph T Robinson, Arkansas

    Camp Barkeley, Texas HQ 357th Infantry
    (I have two promotion certificates)
    April 16, 1942 promoted to Corporal (90th ID) Company H, 357th Regiment
    October 28, 1942 promoted to Sgt (90th ID) Company H, 357th Regiment
    *These dates conflict with Hawaii training video, 6 months Machine Gun NCO....perhaps he left unit to train men in Hawaii? Or be trained?

    Nov 11, 1942, SPECIAL PASSPORT issued, good for 6 months
    Valid for travel in India, Burma, China- Official business. Necessary countries en route
    Nov 12, IRAQ
    Nov 12, Egypt
    Nov 13, Iran
    *Nov 13, *China, can't read Chinese, is November 13 if I remember correctly
    Nov 20, Trinidad & Tobago
    Nov 21, Belem

    Separation papers say:
    November 20, 1942 departure AP
    November 29, 1942 arrival

    **1942 video, month/s unknown, dad training Army Rangers how to use a Thompson Submachine Gun, Ft Shafter, Hawaii
    "Spent Christmas (1942) in hospital (malaria?) in Karachi, Pakistan" handwritten on menu for Casual Detachment 8925 B
    Also have Garrison hat with instructor pin for Casual Detachment 8925 B.


    January 1943 sporadic through 1944
    Letters home all from APO 628 (Ramgarh Training Center) India
    ADDRESS ALL VARIATIONS OF: APO 628, HQ HQ DET, INF, CT CC, RTC
    I'm assuming abbreviations stand for Headquarters & Headquarters Detachment, Infantry, Chinese Training, Chinese Command, Ramgarh Training Center

    Sept. 1, 1943 & Oct. 4, 1943:
    Club Ding Teek, Ramgarh, Bihar, India, NCO membership card


    *Date unknown: Attended 6 week school at Ramgarh, India in the Chinese language. Learned limited speaking and writing

    Per Golden Arrow:
    March, 1944 Area -6 Asiatic Hospital for diagnosis Cicatrix, Googled definition, says has to do with wound scarring yet separation papers say no wound and a Purple Heart is not listed. (*No idea where area 6 was. Info pulled from study in 1980's for WWII hospitalizations.)

    April 3, 1944 Club Ding Teek, Ramgarh, Bihar, India, NCO membership card

    Aug. 8, 1944 Motor Vehicle Operator's Permit
    R.T.C.
    Type vehicles: Trucks
    1/2-1 1/2 ton
    2 ton & larger



    Dec 9, 1944, depart (AP) for US
    Feb 1, 1945, arrive US

    March 1945
    Paperwork says: Fol EM ASF reld unasgd Co 2 1817 SCU this sta and trfd in gr to orgns San Anonio, Texas
    WP o/a 19 March 45 EDCMR 22 March 45 AGNA
    1831 SCU MP DET
    *John H Kimzey s/Sgt. MCO 010 MOS 356/677 ATF
    * in charge
    (MP San Antonio, Texas, train guard NCO)



    Military Policeman, was a train guard keeping order among military personnel., Did town car patrol work in San Antonio, Texas, keeping order, was car commander and operated two way radios


    October 22, 1942 Separation Center, Fort Sam Houston, Texas
    Honorable discharge Staff SGT, 1857th Service Command

    Oct 22 Train stub :)

    Mother said he was a ranger. I have not found any documentation of such. I have read an article that said some Rangers became instructors. Only campaign credit was India-Burma. No CIB on separation papers.
    Thanks for any help I can get!
     
  10. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    I may have missed it, but how do you know those dates conflict? How do you know it is Hawaii in the video and that is the time frame?

    I suspect those dates are when the visas were issued and not the dates of travel. ;)

    Again, how do you know the video is from 1942? How do you know he is training "Army Rangers"? And how do you know the location is Fort Shafter?

    A "diagnosis" of "cicatrix" is pretty odd, since a cicatrix is the scarring resulting from a wound or other skin lesion.
     
  11. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow Patron  

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    The scarring could have been from a pre-War injury or surgery. If it was in a location that was causing him problems (i.e. interfering with movement), that might explain why he needed medical attention. Pure speculation, of course.
     
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  12. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    He was drafted March of 1942. The two certificates of promotions are labeled Camp Barkeley, Texas and dated April and October of 1942. According to his separation papers, he left and arrived in AP Nov 20-29, 1942. The NARA video is labeled with Hawaii Territory 1942 Ranger Training, Fort Shafter. He is training the men in jungle weapons section with a Thompson Submachine gun. I have him in India at Ramgarh Training Center from letters home with that APO, March* 1943.
    So, you are saying the stamps in his passport don't mean he was actually there?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  13. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Major (later Lieutenant Colonel) Francois d'Eliscu established the first American Ranger course at Camp Meade Maryland, c. July 1942 and led it until December 1942. After promotion, he went to Hawaii and established a similar school at Fort Shafter, c. January-February 1942. One of d'Eliscu's trainees at Shafter, Lieutenant Colonel Henry Mucci later retrained the 98th Field Artillery at Brisbane and New Guinea, which then became the 6th Ranger Battalion.

    Unfortunately, date and locations given in NARA film is often tricky. Luckily, we can identify a date for a section of the film by the presence of Eleanor Roosevelt. She actually was there on 25 September 1943. So it seems likely if that is him there, then it is around that time. It is possible he was TDY there from Ramgarh, but that seems odd.

    Not on those dates. How and why would he travel to Iraq on 12 November, then back west to Egypt on the same day before back east to Iran on the next day and then further east to China on the same day? Followed a week later by Trindidad and Tobago in the Caribbean and then Belim, Brazil? No. The route was Trinidad and Tobago-Belem-(probably a stop in Dakar)-Egypt-Iraq-Iran-India.
     
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  14. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    I agree, the dates are unusual.. That's why I'm posting here for help, I did not see Eleanor Roosevelt in the film, I'm assuming you know she was there at that time by other records, unless you know of a different video. Stilwell handpicked the instructors for Ramgarh, so at some point in 1942, their paths should have collided. (Stilwell handpicked them per the CBI website.) I am determined to figure this out and am trying every avenue I can think of... I was hoping the passport might be a key. The other men went to Ramgarh on the USS Brazil at an earlier date in 1942. I assume dad flew later to catch up? Any and all help/responses are appreciated. It appears the more I learn, the less I know..... Also, what unit were the men doing the training in the video from? I'm wondering if there was a connection to casual detachment 8925-b. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  15. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Eleanor is the lady in the last few moments of the film with the funny hat, seated with the others observing the training. She also posed for a still photo with LTC d'Eliscu on the same day. The men that went through d'Eliscu's Ranger course at Camp Meade were from the 78th ID. Those I know of that ran through the Fort Shafter camp were from divisions that passed through Hawaii...the 33d ID was one of them (12 July 1943-30 April 1944) and I suspect some of the personnel in the film are from it, but personnel stationed with the Hawaiian garrison were also cycled through.

    How are you sure the guy with the Tommy Gun is him? Everything else points to him traveling to India and being there for all of his Pacific service.

    BTW, "Area 6" was a designation for the Air Transport Command and was around Chabua in Assam India. So he was in India then too.
     
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  16. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    Long story, longer. Ha ha! Dad already had a teaching degree ( only required two year degrees back then in Arkansas) before he was drafted and had returned to college to take airplane (mechanic? If memory serves me) classes so he could be a pilot in the Army Air Corp. He said you had to be interviewed and take a test to be accepted. He was interviewed and they liked him so much, he didn't even have to take the test. He just had to pass the physical. He failed (eyes.) My father is deceased, so I can't ask questions. No one living has knowledge of his time overseas. All his siblings and army buddies are dead. (He would have been 103 this year.) Some clues I remember, he said, "They wanted me to be a drill sergeant. But I didn't want to." "There were these men building a road...." " I changed units to see action. The unit I left was one of the first to see action." He was called sab by his servant boy. (Indian for sir or something like that.) He flew over The Hump (not as pilot). "I saw Mao Tse Tung, but it was only from a distance." (I probably butchered the spelling.) How do I know that is my father? It's a very good close up color video. If it is not my dad, he has a twin. The ears, the hair, the nose, the lips, the build, the MOS, the body language. He later was an instructor at Ramgarh. I have pictures of him wearing his Garrison hat with the instructor pin. I also have the hat and pin in my possession. Just trying to get documentation of all his service. Working all avenues....
     
  17. KMZgirl

    KMZgirl Member

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    Dad had "shell shock" and required hospitalization shortly after his discharge. He once showed up at the neighbor's house and had no idea who he was. I'm not sure if this was before or after the electric shock therapy. There were segments of his memory that he never recovered. Some time in the 50's, he seemed to have recovered and you would have no idea unless someone told you. I'm thinking he may have seen combat in the India Burma Campaign. That's another thing I'm trying to document. I have been told it is possible to have "shell shock" without seeing battle. Again, the more I learn, the less I know.... :/
     

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