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Rhein wiesen lager

Discussion in 'Post War 1945-1955' started by aquist, Aug 6, 2010.

  1. aquist

    aquist recruit

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    i was stationed in Bad Kreuznach Germany in the 60's (8th ID) i always asked people what happened there in the war mostly they did not want to talk. Some one said "oh they kept a bunch of SS men in a muddy ditch and did not feed them." that was an understatement, the truth is German prisoners by the thousands died in the camps. Go google it. Rhein Meadows Camps.
     
  2. sniper1946

    sniper1946 Expert

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    Take things into account..and then respond...

    The Lack of food, lack of basic infastructure, logistical issues, medical treatment problems, man-power issues, lack of training, lack of essential services and a thousand other issues.
    The thing to remember is, there were massive problems affecting Europe, not just the pow camps.
    Europe in 1945 was a vast desperate area, with massive health care issues, and huge food shortages, to name but just two of the problems it faced...it is not that simple..just to point the finger...
    were we better? or worse! history, can only tell you that..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager
     
  3. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Got to agree with Ray. The Allies weren't ready for the huge numbers of prisoners taken, and it's all very well the GC saying prisoners can't be kept in tents, but there wasn't the time or material to construct adequate accommodation. Back in 1941 when the first Italian PoWs came to Britain, they had to build their own camps. Now multiply that by the prisoners taken at the end of the war, when the Allies had bombed the service infrastructure out of existence, and you can appreciate why it unnecessary deaths happened.
    Ignore people like Bacque; there was NO Allied policy of killing PoWs.
     
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  4. Icare9

    Icare9 Member

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    acquist: Your point is what, exactly? Have you not looked into the number of German prisoners held by the Russians and how few returned?

    Why would you be asking people "What happened here" during WW2 and expect more than cursory responses? Immediately after the War there were enormous pressures, enlisted men wanted to get back home, Europe was full of displaced refugees, all searching for families to see who survived the Nazi Occupation, slave workers being released, concentration camp victims needing attention and you post about "thousands" dying. Thousands died elsewhere too, not just there, so please get it in perspective.
     
  5. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    oh...I thought this was a thread on the popularity of a particular kind of beer brewed post-war, in a brewery on the Rhine, called "Weisen Lager"...

    How wrong can one be?
     
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  6. Rhineman

    Rhineman Member

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    I've spent four years trying to find the truth of my German wife's ,grandfather's death, at the prison camp of Andernach. Can you tell us more? You are the only one, apart from a man now dead sixty years, who I've ever come across who mentioned the way the SS were disposed of.
     
  7. Rhineman

    Rhineman Member

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    You're wrong. Bacque got it right on this one- there was a policy of letting the German POWs die. Everything was done to allow it be a natural death due to the elements and starvation. The Civilians begged to help but were told to back off at rifle point.
     
  8. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Now that is just complete and utter crap.
    There was NO such policy.
    Have a read at this thread, and then tell me how you think these mysterious, unnamed civilians were going to be able to help-
    http://www.ww2f.com/post-war-1945-1955/46436-food-shortages-germany.html#post527745
     
  9. Rhineman

    Rhineman Member

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    I know about the food shortages but that didn't stop the civilians trying to feed the prisoners. I've talked to an eye-witness, someone who was there in 1945, at a camp, who saw them being shot at as they attempted to approach the camps. There are a large number of other accounts of civilians at various camps trying to get food in and being shot at and sometimes killed. There was a food shortage but that didn't stop the civilians trying to share what they had.
     
  10. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Give us some hard and fast evidence then; all you've posted so far is alleged hearsay.
     
  11. sniper1946

    sniper1946 Expert

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    bacque quotations? and nothng else gordon...
     
  12. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    I wasn't really expecting anything else, Ray. I've just finished reading the autobiography of a former German PoW who stayed on in Scotland postwar. He mentions being held in an American camp in Germany, how permanently hungry he was and the Americans' generally blase attitude. He doesn't mention anyone being shot, shot at, or deliberately left to die though.
    Since he also denigrates Americans from before his capture, it's fairly safe to say he doesn't like Yanks!
    I haven't heard any mention of American "extermination camps" in any other PoW accounts I've read- except those appearing on the IHR website.
     
  13. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    This is total bunk, and widely dis-proven. "Eye-witnesses" or no, there was not a policy of shooting SS prisoners, Waffen SS or the SS guards. There were isolated incidents of SS guards being shot, but it was a small number, halted immediately, and those who had done so were punished by General Eisenhower.

    This is simply false information spread by a Bacque believer.
     
  14. Rhineman

    Rhineman Member

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    That's a fair enough challenge. Try the links below that show that civilians were trying to feed the prisoners. There are more accounts than these if necessary. As an aside- the camps were often located in agricultural areas- the camps themselves built on open fields. The civilians who were trying to help were often from farming communities who unlike the cities had some access to more food.


    www.rheinwiesenlager.de/Dietersheim.htm


    http://home.arcor.de/kriegsgefangene/memoirs/bretzenheim.html
     
  15. Rhineman

    Rhineman Member

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    Why is Bacque given such short shrift? Is there a short answer or am I prompting something longer in this? There is enough evidence outside of what he says to support what he says.
     
  16. Rhineman

    Rhineman Member

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    There was a policy.

    We did not take any SS prisoners and they rarely surrendered anyway, because they knew they were going to be shot, because they shot our prisoners. Therefore, it was easy for American soldiers to single out the SS and seek revenge.

    http://etd.ohiolink.edu/send-pdf.cgi/Givens Seth A.pdf?ohiou1275450120
     
  17. sniper1946

    sniper1946 Expert

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  18. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    I think you are putting a lot of emphasis on a thesis that talks more of looting. I came across what I think is a relevant passage on page 122. The anger toward the SS came out as looting, not killing. In fact, the theme of the whole thesis revolves around looting. In a quick read, I saw no reference to Allied soldiers killing anyone.

    After the Battle of the Bulge, word spread throughout the U.S. Army about SS troops killing unarmed GIs outside Malmédy, Belgium. This news, coupled with reports of Germans infiltrating American lines wearing U.S. uniforms, drove soldiers to seek souvenirs out of revenge. Therefore, taking objects for revenge occurred most often in the final months and weeks of the war. Their anger, though, was not aimed at the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, or Volkssturm but SS troops. GIs sought the death’s head ring, SS daggers, or any other item that was directly related to the infamous German unit. The U.S. Army’s discovery of concentration and labor camps deep in Germany further angered American soldiers and hardened their resolve to exact revenge upon the SS.


    Bold is my addition.
     
  19. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    More hearsay evidence. The link to the alleged "source" doesn't even work, and there are none mentioned in the extract.
    And you've suddenly jumped to accusing the allies of shooting prisoners to accusing just the Americans.

    Another link to an alleged source that doesn't work. There was NO policy of shooting SS - or any other German prisoners.


    Because he has no idea what he is talking about.
     
  20. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    I've been trying to trace some of those "testimonies"; one of which just happens to be a known right-winger-
    Reinhard Uhle-Wettler – Wikipedia

    And another who would have been in the age group of PoWs classified as "Black" by the Allies- ie under 25 and a die-hard Nazi.
    No surprises there then.
     

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