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Ruler of a conquered Britain?

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by ColHessler, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    I know this has been talked about before. I'm thinking about an alternate history, with a long German campaign in Britain. A question I have to answer in it would be who leads a conquered Britain.

    I know most people bring up Oswald Mosley. Would he have any role in the rule of an occupied Britain, or would he be set aside for someone else in the U.K. to be a leader or even a figurehead? Or would the Germans even have a figurehead, and bring in some German to rule? Who could it be? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    An interesting question. It might depend on the nature of German occupation and British Resistance.

    The Vichy Model. The Germans obtain air superiority over the South East and prevent the Navy from interfering with a landing. The Germans capture London. Churchill's government falls and a more pliable bunch form a government. (Lord Halifax - Lloyd George) The British national government in York has responsiblity for Home security.

    The Balkans/ Belgian model: The Germans offer a uniteds ireland to the IRA and Free state and idependence for Scotland and Wales as a tactic to avoid garrisoning out of the way rough terrain. Insert appropriate nationalists in charge.

    The Netherlands and Norway model. The British government and monarchy heads off in exile to Canada. There is a German military goverment and Moseley's lot are the basis for recruiting reliable pro German support.
     
  3. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    That's a lot to think about. I'm certainly going to give Ulster to the Irish, but I thought of keeping the rest of Britain under my thumb. Thank you for this food for thought.
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Mosley would have been compared to Laval, I think, and would have been a problem in the long run.

    The former King was in the West Indies, safely out of reach of the Germans.
     
  5. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    Who would you use, then?
     
  6. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I'm not that familiar with the leading lights of the day in Britain. If I had to do it myself I'd appoint a panel of, say, three British (as figureheads) and three Germans (as "advisors"). Total puppets, all, of course.
     
  7. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I would bet that the Germans could persuade a certain Duke of Windsor to regain the throne. The Jerries wouldn't give a damn as to who his wife was or wasn't.
     
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Nope. He was safe in the West Indies without any real responsibilities and a comfortable lifestyle.
     
  9. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    If something happened to George VI, then maybe. Or maybe not, since he would be looked at as too pliable by the people.
     
  10. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    The British had plans to evac the Royals. First stop would have been Canada.
     
  11. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    Yes. I plan to mention that in my story. Would the Germans ever bother with a royal figurehead? I'm guessing not.
     
  12. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I'm guessing yes. The Germans would want the Brits to be calm and quiet. The closer the government is to the old order, the better. The king represents the nation and so as long a there's someone on the throne, the "bobbies" patrol the streets, the courts are in session, the pubs sell beer and so on, the more likely it is that the populace will accept, even grudgingly, the new order. Naturally, the Nazis would be behind the scenes pulling the strings. There'd be some sort of parliament but would be constrained in what laws it could pass. Of course the leadership of the country would be German puppets.
     
  13. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    Good point, sir. If they were fast enough to catch George VI, they might keep him on the throne?
     
  14. harolds

    harolds Member

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    After thinking about this for a while, I'd say that if they nabbed his family too then he might feel compelled to be compliant. If they just caught him, I'd like to think he'd tell them to "Stuff it!". The Queen might have been a harder nut to crack. She could easily have said, "Don't do it George! We'll all die together if we have to!" If I were in the German's shoes, I'd try to trade him/them for the DoW and Wallace who were Nazi sympathizers anyway and would make a much more agreeable puppets.
     
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  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I'm currently reading a bio on Dudley Pound, primarily for the clues as to plans in case of a collapse. I'll report back with anything relevant.
     
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  16. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    I remember reading SS-GB. If he were alone and crippled like in that book, they might keep him, otherwise probably not.
     
  17. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    It would be interesting to see what the German records say on this point. They certainly did draw up a list of suspects who would go straight into the camps and/or the ground once they took over, and I assume they were thinking of potential collaborators/stooges as well. There certainly were some candidates for those roles, some of them highly placed former Appeasers who had a great deal more prestige and influence than Mosley. Lloyd George was probably the most distinguished of the bunch, though his political star had greatly waned. Halifax of course pressed for a compromise peace in May 1940, with Chamberbottom hovering in the background. Edward VIII was a potential figurehead, or would have been if Churchill hadn't sent him into exile. Geoffrey Dawson, editor of the Times and Halifax's close friend, might have helped out on the propaganda side. One of the most interesting potential collabos was General J.F.C. Fuller, who had been up to his bald dome in the British Fascist movement. His political prejudices shine through even in his postwar military writings. Years ago Kenneth Macksey wrote a what-if fact/fiction book about Sea Lion in which Fuller is asked to "do a Petain."
     
  18. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    I remember reading Macksey's book a long time ago. I'd have to look again for it to see about Fuller. Thanks.
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

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    "I was rather rude to all members of the COS including poor old Dudley Pound - but he is quite maddening & long past retirement."
    ~Alanbrooke, 26/08/42

    If looking at collapse, & considering a novel thereof; I think 'The Admiralty Citadel' maybe requires mention.
    Still there on Horseguards, a giant fortified concrete block where the Government, and quite possibly establishment, were expected to make their last stand.

    Citadel,_Horse_Guards_Road_(geograph_5346088).jpg

    There are/were other citadels, but in theory the candidates for leadership who were not interested & based in the capital, might well be found there.
     
  20. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    An Elizabeth lookalike...takes the leadership as figurehead.
     

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