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SAS war crimes

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by CAC, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Watched as much of this as I could last night...this is disappointing. Massive respect to the whistle blower...and yes he does fear for his life.

    Shocking video of an Australian soldier shooting dead an unarmed man

    <iframe width="700" height="394" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Found the opening footage interesting...
    WARNING: Graphic Footage + Language - Full story in the article.
    Comments from serving or ex serving welcome.
     
  2. wooley12

    wooley12 Active Member

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    I wish that what happened was not normal at the front but it is. I hope where you are it is not celebrated by the top of the Command.
     
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  3. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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  4. Jack B

    Jack B Active Member

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    This is so complicated. But, the long and short, the Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC) must be adhered to.

    Yes, soldiers step over the line. No, they should not. However, it is in no way that simple. If you think it is, you haven't been there.

    And, most soldiers are well trained and professional and observe the LOAC to an incredible degree. I've have been simply amazed by the professionalism I have witnessed in the face of extreme stress and duress.

    We, and our enemies and critics, hold ourselves to a high standard, despite the fact that that is absolutely not the case on the other side of the battlefield.

    We try. We aren't always successful. We should always strive to do better.
     
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  5. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I recall a movie with young Danish soldiers sent to afganishtan. Some 40+ Danish were killed by Taliban. If the Finns got so many dead we woukd come home but I guess the Danes were ca 19+ and the Finns ca 30+.. It means alot. I was in Bosnia 30+ and I knew the guards and patrols were perfect ( my hope )Our troops were ca 36+ in age. US troops try to undertand where you are (Bosnia, not GermANY), and presss people of the armt, after two years, we are Finnish not Norwegian.,

    About SAS crimes. Can you shoot them for fighting the enemy unless somebody swears it was an enemy soldier with orders not to killl them?
     
  6. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Can you shoot them for fighting the enemy unless somebody swears it was an enemy soldier with orders not to killl them?

    Not sure what this means mate...sorry.

    Yes this is an old story unfortunately...Been going on as long as war has...
    I remember having a conversation with a Staff Sergeant circa 1990...He said the "psycho" bloke who kills 200 people, sleeps soundly and goes out the next day to kill another 200 is the sort of person you want in the front during a time of war ...but is an unwanted problem in peace time.
    The SAS and Commandos have no doubt a good number of "thugs" in their ranks...(you might see them in a bar/pub, stomping on the head of an already unconscious person) In the first video an Afghan special forces soldier was killed and that hit a nerve on one soldier, and this attitude carried on to the next mission. This is by no means professional but the human side to war. As for the treatment of the villagers and shooting dogs (a personal hate of mine) there is no excuse...none. Indeed it flies in the face of what Australians were there for and what we do...help and protect.

    I am reminded of a disturbing scene in the movie Platoon where they go into a village, into a hut to see a disabled man and his mother...one soldier caves in the head of the disabled man and then shoots the distraught mother for not shutting up...The same "psycho thug" attitude is seen in this video...

    Important to remember the whistle blower wanted to do things "honourably" - You can be bad ass and honourable. Also important to note that some of the other soldiers who saw this described it as "bullshit" and weren't happy.

    Ultimately, this is another facet of war that sucks just as hard as other facets...war sucks.
     
  7. wooley12

    wooley12 Active Member

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    That Staff Sargent was right about the "time of war" in his observation. In times of war you won't get caught for one thing. Or judged for another.

    The story of why the bloke killed the unarmed guy trips a memory. My best friend through Boy Scouts, High School and usher at my wedding was a Marine in the bush Nam 1970. He told me a story when he returned that he said he would never tell anyone else. He's dead now so....... They were set up at a forward position and a new guy joined the unit who got into the Marines by lying about his age. Kid was 16. The unit all looked out for him like a little brother. The kid went out on with a patrol , there was a fire fight and the kid got killed and they brought back 3 VC prisoners. My friend said to me over his beer "They shouldn't have brought back any prisoners." Then he said "I shouldn't have been the one to do it. No one else would do it. So I did it."
     
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  8. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    The Report is coming out and Scott Morrison Australia's Prime Minister has publically warned Australians that what will be released in this report will shock and disappoint us. This could go down to a VC recipient...The government has not ruled out cancelling any or all awards. Morrison has called the Afghan President to express his sorrow over the findings...
    NOTE: This does not represent Australia or the bulk of the SAS.

    Scott Morrison calls Afghanistan's President to express 'sorrow' over soldiers' actions

    Defence leadership allowed 'cancerous individuals' to influence SAS culture

    Braden says there was a 'toxic culture' in Afghanistan, where support staff like him were beaten up by SAS soldiers

    [​IMG]

    I direct people to the initial ABC report at the top of the page for more information...and footage.
     
  9. wooley12

    wooley12 Active Member

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    "the former SAS patrol member believes the culture was shaped by the constant grind of deployment after deployment, by leadership that turned a blind eye, and by the pointlessness of their mission in Afghanistan"

    That seems to reflect similar behavior in the wars that I've studied and accounts that I've heard.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  11. ARWR

    ARWR Active Member

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    It has long been a problem with small irregular forces which can develop their own internal culture and value system and drift away from disciplinary control. It's one reason why so many senior officers have from time to time objected to their formation (and have been damned as fuddy duddies). It's apparently one reason why Napoleon resisted calls for a French rifle brigade. If standards can be maintained they can be devastatingly effective weapons but if not they can become well equipped brigands. WW2 saw a mixture of both types.
     
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  12. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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  13. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    I solemnly swear once I'm declared King of The World the first thing I will do is outlaw Twitter. The very name Is repugnant. Stupid twits !
     
  14. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    It is easy to shoot when you are afraid all the time of being shot instead. It is a hell to live through but cannot say killing was it 39 civilians without guns is sorta "understandable".

    I was back in the 90´s for a year in Bosnia, but as part of medical personnel, I only had an empty magazine in my gun as I had decided so, plus full magazines on my waist. I had decided I am not the first MD to kill a local civilian by accident or on purpose. If they had found it out they would have sent me home because it was more or less against the rules. My job was to save own lives first, then perhaps locals. . Then again killing a civilian for safety and he had no gun I would go to military court. So pick the better option. :( :(

    We had big red crosses on our arms but our rank was though painted black by ourselves.
     
  15. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Some of what is coming out is that a number of killings were effectively executions carried out by newbies to "blood them" and give them their first kill...that's bullshit right there. One possibly killed because the helicopter was full and couldn't fit onboard...again, that's bullshit and should never happen from an Australian.
    We have a proud history of leaving an area having made friends with the locals since WW1 onwards...this activity makes life long enemies...what if you were a friend or relative of those killed? What would be your impression of Australians and overseas intervention in general?
    If they are found guilty they should end their days in a military prison. The families should be generously compensated. And a thorough going through of the special forces in general to make sure this happens as rarely as possible. Shit happens in war...but not this shit.
    Im sure this has occurred in other militaries, but Australia has the ABC who reports and investigates without fear or favour...over the past 2 years it has exposed animal cruelty in overseas meat works involving Australian Animals...this caused the closure of the live cattle industry in Australia for a period and improvements demanded O/S if they wanted to continue to receive our sheep and cattle...just recently they exposed the killing of race horses and the dumping of their bodies in bush land, and then went onto the dog racing industry and almost shut it down in Australia for good! This shows the importance of an independent media..."keeps the bastards honest".
    Perhaps Australia isn't the only ones guilty of these types of war crimes, but it won't be tolerated by the Australian public, ever.
    China is still really pissed we were the first to call for an investigation into the origins of the Corona Virus, and continue to...they have been punishing us for months as a result...Australia has been calm and calculated in it's dealings with China up until now, with the doctored photo doing the rounds, with the "artist" saying he wants to do some more doctored photos...tensions have never been this bad with China and Australia has just about had enough of the BS.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    My impression is that the Australians are proud, tough and fair fighters wherever they go. I could not link them to "blooding the newbies". I wish this is all absolute BS and the names will be cleaned from the accusations.
     
  17. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020