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Secession!

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by A-58, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude Patron  

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    I've read in the past and now saw an article on the news today about four counties in western Maryland wants secede from the rest of the state and form their own state. Seems that the four western counties in question are a bit more conservative from the rest of eastern Maryland and they've had enough. Not sure what chances they have in being successful in their quest, but it is interesting news. It's not the only instance of secession that I've read about lately. Now what did I do with that Confederate money that grandad gave to me years ago....

    Any comments from the peanut gallery?
     
  2. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    I'm going to put this right in the Stump. It's sure to generate controversy of the political type. I won't give my thoughts because they will contribute to the controversy, and II refuse to do that.
     
  3. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large Patron  

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    The states decided to join freely, they should be able to leave freely. As for a portion of a state seceeding, precedent has been set. West Virginia was allowed to be formed from portions of Virginia that opted to seperate from that state during the Civil War.
     
  4. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude Patron  

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    Thanks Lou, what would we do without you!

    Yes, and West Virginia annexed several more counties after the war, as late as 1867 if I remember reading it correctly.

    There's also been rumblings in Colorado and Atlantic portions of eastern Maryland and Virginia as well concerning the same motivations, the conservatives getting fed up with the liberal attitudes of the other parts of the state.

    Can't we all just get along!
     
  5. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member Patron  

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    Well they could join West Virginia which is fairly conservative politically :)
     
  6. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Go on give us a laugh over here...Raise the flags....Show the marches on you tube...Rifles issued yet...

    Can't wait...
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    IIRC, those counties were not "annexed: after the war. It was just that the "legality" of secession was finally decided.

    The counties had voted to secede from Virginia in February, 1863 and did. However, in December, 1865, the reformed state government of Virginia had questioned the legality of such, since a great many "voters" were away fighting for the Confederates, thus the "vote" could not be considered legal. Congress passed a resolution in 1866 that the counties in question did belong to West Virginia. Virginia still continued to fight for it's lost counties, taking it's case to the Supreme Court in 1867, the Court finally decided, in 1871, that the counties had legally seceded from Virginia.
     
  8. chibobber

    chibobber Member

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    A similar discussion in Illinois in and around Cook County.Nothing ever comes of it.Like Maryland,Illinois is affected by Chicago like Maryland is with Baltimore and DC.
    The biggest obstacle to secession is the cost of setting up new governments,and what do you do with state assest.
     
  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    D, think about what you just typed.
     
  10. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large Patron  

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    Most of the state of Virginia is fairly conservative, except those counties surrounding Washington, DC, where the Washingtonans have spilled over into.
     
  11. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member Patron  

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    Not sure what you mean Jeff as the western most portion of Maryland borders W.Va. and as I recall W. Va. went red last election cycle (checked '96 was the last presidential election that the Dem's took the state). Also using anecdotal accounts from relatives living in that state tend to leave me with the impression that it is becoming 'redder' each cycle.

    We gerrymander the districts now to keep them safe for one party or the other, why not the states too?

    I lived there as a child (mothers family originated there since before the Revolution, with most still there) and so still have some fondness for it. Besides the days of Robert Byrd, the king of Pork, are long gone and a more affluent and conservative voter base are moving there from area around. W.Va. is moving away from coalminer and hillbilly holler's for traditional middle class suburbia.
     
  12. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Secession.

    That is a subject that I have heard discussed more in the past couple of years than I have before in my lifetime. Yaa-hoos have always run their mouths about it, but rarely did anyone pay much attention to them. Now, it seems like people you would never think would have even considered it are proposing that course of action.

    There is a great distrust of Washington.
     
    texson66 likes this.
  13. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I was joking on West Virginia. Who would want to voluntarily join West Virginia? :dance3:
     
  14. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude Patron  

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    Maybe so, but the Yankees weren't going to let Virginia get those counties back. The action was largely viewed as annexation by Virginians and those who became West Virginians against their will.
     
  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Ironically, the Supreme Court Justice that was born in Virginia voted in favor of West Virginia.
     
  16. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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  17. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Did it ever entirely stop?
     
  18. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    The Constitution, Article 4, Section 3 specifies that forming new states within existing states requries the consent of the legislature(s) thereof and of Congress, so the counties cannot secede unilaterally.

    West Virginia was an interesting situation. The secessionist legislatures had declared themselves out of the Union, so the US government no longer recognized them. The loyal government established in western Virginia was considered to be the legitimate government of the entire state, and could therefore consent to the partition.
     
  19. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Wave the flags...strike up the band...I'm buying extra popcorn...
     
  20. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large Patron  

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    But the Federal Government refused to recognize that there was a right of secession, so therefore West Virginia if it were recognized as the legitimate government of Virginia, should have had control over the entire state, not just those counties that suceeded from Secessionist Virginia.
     

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