Discussion in 'Living History' started by wm., Mar 4, 2019.
Actual slo-mo at 6:10
Anything for Science....... Or......... Boys and their toys.
Interesting instability in the 76mm shot. Amateurs!
Is there such a thing as a porpoise round ?
The two important, only in the US things are private ownership of such hardware, and two random YouTubers making such an impressive video.
You have a nice country over there, make sure something bad won't happen to it.
Because it's the last one, like that on this planet.
There are other countries which permit private ownership of armored vehicles with live guns. The US isn't the only place.
I'd go so far as to say live tank ownership is actually more difficult in the US than many other countries.
Usage when eventually permitted, maybe, but the owners have jumped through many hoops to get there from cut armour to destructive device, with state by state variances, & international import being an even bigger pita.
The reason so many tankish war film scenes are filmed in the UK: officialdom has (so far) never given much of a toss what people bring in or choose to play with, so we have an unusually diverse 'national collection' of running gear. Live firing about impossible, but many guns uncut & technically fully functional.
Be interesting to work out who allows what.
Russia now pretty impossible to import 'cultural heritage' from, so that flow of interesting Eastern bloc gear of a decade or so ago seems to have dried up a bit.
but, which ones?
In Britain you can't even carry a knife in public, guns are in the "forget it" category. Add Internet censorship (including the dreaded Article 13), prison terms for jokes (e.g. for the Nazi saluting pug) and you have a very different, much less free than the US country.
btw, the prices:
D20 - $1950 for the first round ($750 each additional one),
Sherman - $2,800,
T-34 - $3,500.
They really aren't.
I know a lot of shooters, with some very interesting pieces between them. Hundreds more if you include black powder & shotgun chaps.
There are hoops to be jumped through, variants in interpretation between police forces, and no handguns any more, but though licensing is tighter than most it's not all that far off many other countries' approach to firearms. Certainly not in the 'forget it' category.
Canada and the UK immediately come to mind
Also, I am curious as to what your quoted prices refer to.
I believe the US is the last country where such items can be legally owned and fired by private persons.
I don't know anything about Canada but according to Wikipedia, its gun laws are very restrictive, capricious and random.
In the EU (and of course in the UK) all old (new too) guns have to be deactivated (all their actions cut and welded to the weapon body prohibiting cocking or dry firing.)
The prices are for the fun of firing them (with some additional benefits), charged by the owners (Drive Tanks) of that D20, Sherman, T-34 (not shown) and many more "destructive devices."
Has the secret component of Chobham armour finally been revealed?
The current standard for deactivated guns is fully welded. Pre-legislation de-acs have been left alone. (My Bren is old spec deactivation. Cocks, ''fires', pinned barrel and some disassembly prevented by small welds.)
Conflating deactivated weapons with licensed and functioning guns there.
If 'All historic weapons' were deactivated, a mate wouldn't have his rather nice & entirely legally held collection of functional second & first war infantry rifles.
You can take my word for it -- everything you see in that video can also be done in Canada. Trust me.
In regards to guns laws: Canadian gun laws are rather restrictive for handguns/short barrel firearms, and extremely restrictive for automatic firearms. Long guns are rather reasonably regulated.
wonder aboot the 1st projectile fired from the Sherman. guessing it's a milled piece of aluminum.
...doubt a rated round manufactured for that gun would behave that way down range...but those particular rounds would cost much more.
enjoyed that video, tanks.
I would agree although it is quite possible that the shot is a turned piece of mild steel which does not have a particularly aerodynamic profile and/or is being fired at a velocity not high enough to stabilize the shot. I strongly doubt that full-power ammo loaded to the original spec is being fired given r distance to the backdrop, crew safety, fall zone, etc. Original spec shot from a 76mm Gun M1A2 would have a muzzle velocity between ~2500 - 3700 fps depending on loading (low end of that range for M79 AP, high end for M93 HVAP). That is an incredible amount of energy to unleash in a non-military setting and is not something you simply play around with.
The "all their actions cut and welded to the weapon body prohibiting cocking or dry firing" is from Wharton Militaria:
Old specification deactivation rules permitted submachine guns and semi automatic rifles to have working actions able to be fully stripped down to their major component parts. Revolvers were permitted to have unblocked cylinders enabling inert ammunition to be put into the cylinder but under the new specification rules this was no longer permitted. New specification rules now legally oblige that submachine guns and semi automatic rifles have all their actions cut and welded to the weapon body prohibiting cocking or dry firing. Cocking handles and levers may be left free running in their groves. Change in law on deactivated firearms came into force on 8 April 2016.
Although there is an "old firearms, antiques" exemption, defined as pre-1939 firearms limited to these:
(a) All muzzle-loading firearms;
(b) Breech-loading firearms capable of discharging a rimfire cartridge other than .22 inch or .23 inch (or their metric equivalents), 6mm or 9mm rimfire;
(c) Breech-loading firearms using ignition systems other than rimfire and centrefire (these include pin-fire and needle-fire ignition systems, as well as the more obscure lip fire, cup-primed, teat fire and base fire systems);
(d) Breech-loading centrefire arms originally chambered for one of the obsolete cartridges listed in Appendix 5 and which retain their original chambering;
(e) Shotguns and punt guns chambered for the following cartridges (expressed in imperial measurements): 32 bore, 24 bore, 14 bore, 10 bore (2 and 2 inch only), 8 bore, 4 bore, 3 bore, 2 bore, 1 bore, 1 ¼ bore and 1 ½ bore, and vintage punt guns and shotguns with bores greater than 10. It also includes vintage (pre-1939) rifles in these bores.
From the official Guide on Firearms Licensing Law:
UK firearms policy is based on the fact that firearms are dangerous weapons and the State has a duty to protect the public from their misuse. Gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. Firearms control in the UK is among the toughest in the world.
This the actual range, there are 18,000 acres of land around it. They say they use full power loads:
Which is all about de-acs, and pretty much exactly what I said, with the obsolete calibre stuff added .
My comment was in reply to "all historic guns have to be deactivated".
They really don't, mate.
(And I unequivocally agree with you that our knife laws are frankly batshit.)
None of which helps with Shermans or Slomo!
So here's a favourite slow thing.
No wobble in this pointy little bastard:
It's all done with mirrors, apparently.
I'd heard that before, but this chap explains it brilliantly over some fine footage:
Distance to the target appears to be 300 yards. I highly doubt they're using full power loads. Look up the military procedures for firing a 76mm Gun M1A2, and in particular the safety zones required.
They can do what they wish. All I know is there's no way in hell I'd fire a full-power original spec load in an environment like that.
FWIW, their website also says something along the lines of "the only Sherman with a live 76mm gun" . That is incorrect. It's all about the advertising.
EDIT: I revisited their website and I see it also says the "Only operational Sherman E8 left in the world". I know of at least one other "fully operational Sherman E8" in North America, and doubtlessly there are more both in the US and worldwide. I have nothing against these guys whatsoever and it looks like a great operation so don't get me wrong. I'm just pointing it out...