Shooting at armour...

Where would tank gunners aim for on their targets? Is their a certain spot that proved to be more vulnerable???

 

Panzerknacker, is that tank or anti-tank ?

If anti-tank ( or tank-to-tank ) then it's the tracks, the rear ( if you're in the right position ) or, perhaps most effectively, the 'join' between turret and hull.

 

It will depend on the tank encountered......and of corse what weapon you had as well. Because of the long range high velocity weapons of the German tanks they could fire just about anyplace on an Allied tank and cause extreme damage if not the total destruction of the tank.

E

 

Quite right, Erich !

I was thinking more in terms of, say, a Churchill suddenly coming upon a Panther....

 

Martin, that also could depend on the angle of attack or retreat, coming onto the rear of the Panther and a 75mm shot up the hiney would suffice !

E

 

From experiance, i can tell you its damn hard to try and pick a spasific point on a target to hit. As a rule, and i'd guess this would have applied in WW2 also, we aim for the centre of mass. And idealluy, you'd be looking for a side on shoot. Which is easier to achieve in the defense. Of course, shooting an enemytak the ase would be great. But that means he is between you are you wn troops, and so are hs buddies.

 

Fighting German tanks you would generally aim for the sides. They had had excellent front armor, but were often deficient in side protection.

Americans; if its a sherman, just aim it in the general vicinity and it will probably light on fire.

Im not sure for British or Russian tanks, and Japanese were so weakly protected, it might not matter.

 

Good points all around...

Every tank had its own weaknesses... Side and rear armor was generally thinner than front. Tracks and treads as mentioned. The turret ring is a good one- I've seen a couple photos of tanks knocked out this way, and from reading I get the idea that this happened more often than seems likely. Idea being, you hit the "ring" where the turret joins the tank. Either you blow the turret clean off, or, at least, you immobilize the turret.
One other- the engine decks- area ususally in rear for engine access and engine ventilation- of most tanks were really vulnerable. Of course, this would be an extremely hard target to hit from another tank- one would need elevation.
Driver's vision ports were another generally weak area.

Problem with all these is that which Bish mentions... generally just hitting the enemy took enough talent and luck... let alone hitting a specific area.
I bet this would apply better to anti-tank weapons... Often used from shorter range, one could probably aim a bit more effectively.

 

I agree. It depends on the tank you are facing, and also on what type of weapon you have! If your facing a heavy tank like a Tiger I or King Tiger. I would definately try to hit the tracks or rear engine compartment!

If you attacking an early Panther tank (like a Panther D.), or T34 try to hit the mantlet, or hit just wear the turret and hull meet! Later model Panthers (model G and F) had a "chin" mantlet, that made it difficult to hit this!
If you hit it, this will knock off the turret, which is referred to as "tipping the hat". I've seen action photos of German 88s' doing this to T34s, and blowing the turret about 50 feet up! It looks really cool!

Many American bazoka teams would try to shoot at the side of turrets, and tracks of Panthers and Pz IVs. This was effective as well.

Matt

[ 28. October 2002, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: mp38 ]

 

Probably hit the rear of the tank to hit the engine as mentioned and transmission. Idealy from the rear would be to get a round into the fuel tanks. Many a Tiger and even Panther did well with this method of getting the T-34 to pop their top as you mentioned or that awfully skillful shot between turret and body. Even the Hs 129 squadrons were successful with this and their Mk 103 30mm with Tungsten core rounds. Though hitting the tracks might disable you still to contend with the turret and crew which could still put up resistance.

E

 

From reading the stories of men like: Dr Bake, Hermann Bix, Rodolf von Ribbentrop, and a few others. They all had similar places they would try to aim for like on T-38s they would try aiming between the turret and the mantlet. A shot there usually tore the enemy tanks turret off the tank.

On Russian Assault Guns--they mainly tried to disable ite weaponry by shooting holes through it as those were according to these mens stories--next to impossible to knock out without exposing oneself to extreme danger just to get into position. ((Franz Kurowskis book: "Panzer Aces"))

 

This was probably achieved more by deflection, and alot of luck, in the way Carl mentioned above.

I've fired both MILAN missiles and the RARDEN cannon at satic hard targets. This is with modern sighing systems, on peace time ranges with no fear of the enemy firing backand no smoke or any other obstruction. At 1,000m with a x7, as on the RARDEN, the target is not big enough to try and aim for a small section. If you try and be clever, you only have to be off by a fration to miss.

Aiming at a tank head on, you are roughly aiming at the top of the hull, bottom of the turret, and if you hit the late, yu'd have agood chance of hittig the ring, at least with alot of WW2 tanks.

 

German tank crews were issued with tank manuals and pamphlets that usually outlined the optimum ranges, and best direction from which, to shoot at some of the more common tanks, such as the Sherman, T34, KV1, Chruchill. In the case of the Tiger I and Panther the normal official manuals were translated into comic book style pamphlets which made it easier for the crew to know their tanks' operational requirements and limitations . These were called the Tiger Fibel and the Panther Fibel.

The link below has a copy of the individual pages of the Tiger Fibel.

http://tiger1.info/fibel/index.html

I have read that anti-tank crews and operators of anti-tank weapons (such as the Panzerschreck) also received pamphlets containing the same optimum ranges and attack positions info.

I'd assume that Allied/Russian tank crews would have had something similar for German tanks, though I've never seen anything.

__________________

"On the road from Bollersdorf to Strausberg stood a further 11 Stalin tanks, and away on the edge of the village itself were around 120-150 enemy tanks in the process of being refuelled and re-armed. I opened fire and destroyed first and last of the 11 Stalin tanks on the road....My own personal score of enemy tanks destroyed in this action was 39."

SS-Hauptscharführer Karl Körner (in a Tiger II),
schwere SS Panzer Abteilung (103) 503 / III SS Panzer Corps,
East Germany, April of 1945.

 

One thing just came to my mind here. I read on those StuG III´s in Karelian isthmus in 1944 and in one "story" one StuG III was shooting at a T34 but could not hit it. Anyway, the commander of another StuGIII came forward and hit the T-34 with the first shot and blew it. Then he asked if the other tank had hit its barrel to a tree as he thought the sights were not in place for their gun. Anybody know if this was usual to start shooting off target? I mean if you cannot hit the enemy then it would mean you have to go back from the line and check the sights which would take some time!! And shooting through the barrel is not very nice, I think...
Any ideas on shooting the enemy barrel and getting its sights off balance to save your tank if yours was inferior??AT least just hitting the enemy turret would not save you like many Sherman crews probably learned with Tigers...

 

Ops, and I mean rather hitting the barrel at the corner of the barrel and turret because no way would you try to hit the barrel alone. Sorry about that. But could that make enough problems for the gunner to shoot?

 

Hitting a barrel would be quite diffacult. If you did, it would probably wreck the whole barrel.barrel strikes are common, but again,they generaly damage the whole barrel. Though with a StuG this would not be so much of a problem as barrel strike tends to happen when you have the barrel off to one side and don't notice some obstacle.

It could simply have been the case that it had a defective sight. It could have come lose, or more likely the reticle pattern was out. I don't know how they aligned the sights back then, anyone any ideas. But it should be a quick job that could be done on the spot, providing the sight was not US.

 

Most likely, if the sights were out, they would probably unbolt the whole unit and replace it with another. It would be quicker that trying to align a faulty reticle. Which you could waste time on in peace time but not when you need that tank back up the front asap.

I suppose if it was possible they then might send the faulty unit back to the manufacturer to get fixed.

Most of the stuff (like radios, sights, Mg's etc) could be unbolted and replaced fairly quickly by workshop units. I've seen photos of workshops' removing engines, wheels and even turrets from Tiger tanks so removing a faulty sight would be fairly easy for them, I'd say.

_______________________

I cannot help feeling that it were better to perish honourably than accept a disgraceful peace.
- Field Marshal Paul von Hindenburg, letter to Friedrich Ebert before the Treaty of Versailles, 1919

 

The sights used back them seem to have been fairly small back then. So they would not have been hard to remove. But, depending on how the gratile was ajusted, it may have only have been a two minute ob to adjust it it it had simle been shaken off. This would be far quicker then waiting for a replacement to be sent forward.

 

According to my grandfather:

In 1940 you would have to shoot at the rear of a Matilda if you wanted to pierce it and at the fan compartment of a Char B.

Later on in the mantlet of a T-34 and the rear of a KV-1 or KV-2. And at the tracks or rear of the later IS models.

Against Western Allied tanks, anywhere worked.