Sniper duel in Stalingrad

Can you tell me if I am correct in thinking that the weapon used by Vassili Zaitsev was a Mosin-Nagant M91/30 sniper rifle with 3.5 power PU telescopic sight? What weapon did his German counterpart use?? These would have been used at Staligrad in 1942.

FYI: the top Russian sniper WW II was a woman: Liudmila Pavlichenko with 309 German kills & 2 Rumanian. Zaitsev was credited with 242 Germans.

 

Welcome aboard, and I believe you are correct about the sniper rifle that Zaitsev used. I read somewhere that told about it, and i will see if I can find the info to be sure--if not--Roland, if you read this--need your help.

Also thank you for the info about the top Russian sniper.

 

Mshx :

First you do know that this movie is a bit fictious correct ?

If herr König would of been real he would of been armed with the standard Mauser 98K with telescopic site of his choice.......whatever that may have been. The top two Wehrmacht snipers were from a German mountain division that fought in southern Russia at this time.
König/Thorwald or whomever this guy was suppose to be is pure fantasy. there were no snipers with the rank of major. Answer if you would like, cause I'm sure I'm going to get pleanty of bizarre mail for me to prove my point. Questions such as yours and the existance of even the duel have been broadcasted on www.feldgrau.com for the past two years, long before the movie was out. The duel never happened.......sorry for my rant and not anwering your question specifically and I do not mean to be obnoxious.......

E.

 

Dear Erich, not trying destroy your nice post but I have a bit of info for you on snipers.

I have a press photo of a Oberstleutnant, who was a sniper at some point in the war, but im positive that he at the time of the photo and as the Obstlt, im sure he is a sniper school instructor. The photo has been seen on this site, and Otto im sure will use it again. I have just a tab bit of info on this Officer--like his name to which I cannot recall at this moment.

I will ask Christian from the OdR, to see what he can find out about this man, when he comes back from vacation.

The photo was where you see the one with the LSSAH Trooper, in the circuler photo.

When I get these others in from Europe, I will give you a copy of this one also.

Other than that, I think what you said about their not being any snipers of the rank of major is correct, I have never heard of such a higher ranking man serving as a common sniper.

 

Carl :

I'm mentioning the soldiers in the field not high grade offiziers. I still do not believe andy sniper got to the rank of major. They were gefreiters or sergeants doing their jobs. In fact the scharfschutzen badge was many times not even given due to the fact if worn then captured......kaput ! I think you know that.
Youmalso kow about the top three Wehrmacht snipers, and yes if we are talking about the smae SS chap with the service cap and winter coat carrying a K-98 Karabiner with scope, they guy is not a sniper but a common......sergeant. It is interesting that I have found that field soldiers with the RK seemed to be intiteled to a little favoritism when it came to choice wepaons. Personally if I was a ground soldier I would prefer a scope mounted rifle more than one with open sites.

Thoughts ?

E.

 

I had the meaning of the post on snipers, I just figured I would throw this KC Light Col, in this for good measure. I know so little about him, but do believe he was in charge or was an instructor at a sniper school

 

Carl :

Can you post the pic of him somewhere on the forum ? I am wondering if we are talking about the same chap ?
I will say that on some occasions sniper-type rifles were given to high ranking offiziers as gifts. Sounds a little strange but it did happen, so again why carry around a standard 98K when you can have a REAL man's rifle......just kidding.....

E

 

Dear Erich,

On a web site RE: sniper legends, there is a post war interview with V. Zaitsev. His encounter with his German counterpart seems very real to him.
Also, thanks to ALL for your responses!

 

Interesting !

A gent that has been working on the Stalingrad battle for over 25 years has several Russian friends that interviewed him and he doesn't stae whether the duel took place or not. There has been reprots that the Moscow state museum has the reported German sniper scope on display, but of course we must understand that the snipers did not have their personal names etched into the scope. So this could of been even a dead troopers found lying in the rubble.
Do you by chance have Peter Senich's monster volume on German snipers ? I will check on the rifle /scope combinations for you and get back to you today for the time period of 1942.


E.

 

Dear Erich,

There is a book, "The War of the Rats" by David Robbins RE: VZ. I researched the ordinance & found out the following. VZ did indeed use a Mosin Nagant 91/30 7.62mm sniper rifle with the stubby PU 3.5 power telescopic site atop its receiver.

Specs as as follows: Length: w/o bayonet 48.5 in. Length: w/bayonet 65.4 in. Wt. w/o bayonet & sling: 11.3 lb. Barrel: 28.7 in, 4 grooves, right hand twist. Magazine: 5 round integral box. Ammo: Russian Light Ball M'08; bullet, 148 gr, charge 48gr. Muzzle Velocity: 2850 fps. Effective Range: 1000 meters.

The rifle of his German counterpart was the Mauser KAR 98K w/Zeiss 6X telescopic site.

J.

 

The book you mention was used for the basis of the movie as well as other items ......

another thought that needs to be looked at is the Soviet propaganda machine never said a word about this duel and outcome. If Zaistlev did indeed pop off Germany's top-sniper, which he did not, then why didn't the propaganda machine go crazy with this and play it up to the world, and if not, why didn't they make light of it to the Soviet peoples...? They would have if the event took place.
Still looking around my files for scopes. The zeiss scope sounds a little weak in range to me, but I'll check further.

E.

 

Dear Erich, I will send an email to Otto and ask him to put the photo back on. I'm not sure whech gent/s we both are talking about, he COULD be one in the same.

Otto, if your reading this-please repost that press photo of the sniper LtCol, and also I will email you on this.

 

Carl, Otto, please post it !

also have you folks seen the sniper training film from International Films ? 1944 I think is the date on this.

E

 

Dear Erich,

You have very valid comments! Why they wouldn't had the media jump on this at the time, I don't know. Then again, it was wartime.
Talking about the Zeiss optical sites, I have this question for you! What weapon allowed Germany infantry & motorized artillery units to actually fire around corners? This weapon also used Zeiss prismatic/visor sight.

J.

 

Still trying to find out more about scopes. It's not quite 9:45 p.m. and I have stuff all over my office floor........the weapon you speak about was the Sturmgewehr 44 with 90 degree barrel extension unit. Used in Vienna and Berlin in 1945.

Still checking the files.

E.

 

Dear Erich,
The data I have does not say that the G 44 is the weapon we are looking to name.

J.

 

The assault rifles 43/1 and 44 are the only ones mentioned especially the 44 with the scope mounting. This was a hand held weapon and their were experiments to fit the non scoped weapon to military vehicles during late 44/45.
What are your sources. Mine is a very old WE publication on submachine guns and assault rifles. I have a few more smaller books/mags that cover the assault rifles to some degree.

E.

 

Dear Erich,

WW II Magazine.

J.

 

Does it say Stug Gewehr or just Gewehr ?

Gewhr stands for gun which could also mean rifle. The Stug Gewehr (assault gun)44 was used with a small scope as an experiment for sniper duties and was a total failure. But was used initially with the curved barrel experiments as I stated. As far as I know it was the only weapon used with this device and not the 98K or Gewehr 43K with or without the ZF 4 scope ....
The standard 98K used during the Stalingrad battles and soldiers of the Wehrmacht/SS used a variety of claw, turret or privately purchased scopes, some dating from the WW I period. The Waffen SS also had specially manufactured scopes for their troops. Commercial scopes from Zeiss and other manufacturers of the 4 to 6 power variety were used until 1943 when Hitler requested that some standardization take place. Commercial firms then placed scopes under military contract and under license from the Hensoldt firm.

Erich

 

Dear Erich,

The gun is not a Gewehr.
See the WW II Magazine: FEb. 1996 for the article, which is online under its German name!

J.