Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by soviet17, Jun 1, 2010.
which is better? the STG-44 or the PPSH-41? im mixed...
Depends if you are playing: Hardcore mode or not
how true XD
In the real world the StG44 ofcourse, it is a far more versatile weapon, it's an assault rifle. It's exactly the same were you to compare the PPSh-41 to the AK47.
Yeah would have to be the StG44 for me, never liked the PPSh41
Both are excellent weapons, I would choose the MP44 as the PPSH is more situational and more difficult to handle. I wouldn't turn it down though.
Your comparing a assault rifle to a smg.............
Well the Stg44 of course...if i had to go into battle and the supply sergeant told me "choose one!" only a fool would pick the SMG. The Ppsh used pistol caliber ammo, and fired from an open bolt, and so was not very useful at anything over 50-100 yards away. If your enemy had a bolt action rifle to shoot at you with, you were in big trouble.
The 7.92 kurtz round of the stg was similar to the AK-47 round of today, so a lot more effective range.
I see most people hear replied: STG-44 however, this may true but what about close qaurters? What about rounds per minute? Accuracy has STG-44 written all over it but in close combat the shapagin machine pistol (PPSH-41) is definatley the better weapon, Dont get me wrong though, i love the STG-44 and i know a lot about it!
The best thing about the PPSh group is its utter reliability, inexpensive production, and in urban combat probably as nasty a "pistol round" as you would want shot at you. That little shouldered round had a LOT of power behind it, for a short distance. When it came out (19th Century), it was the most powerful pistol round in the world.
If your were out of the PPSh-41's range, it was a popgun. If you were in its range it was a buzz-saw. the StG-44 was deadly out to a farther distance, but was little less "agile" in close quarters. I wouldn't want to be hunted with either in an alley, but if I could "run away" I would hope the guy was shooting at me with the puny .30 Mauser round, and not the 7.92 Kurz out of the longer barreled StG-44.
One thing is for sure, the 7.92x33 kurz is a lot larger and more powerful round, however as brndirt1 and I said PPSH-41 has far more reliability in close qaurter situations therefore urban inviorments would be shot up by the fast firing PPSH-41 I think what these questions need are a situation your in, then you choose what weapon but thats just me.
In say, a heavily wooded long sight area, you would want the bigger and more powerful round at distance. What i think then STG-44 was good at was such a big round with a decent RPM. The PPSH-41 has a much higher RPM a more powerful bullet in close range making it unbeatable in these close quarter situations. The PPSH-41 beats most submachine pistols in close quarters due to its HIGH RPM. The German MP-40 had a signifigantly less RPM.
The StG 44 could shoot you through the wall. Kind of hard to hide from that in CQB when your ppsh41 can't reciprocate.
That sounds nice, but don't you think that frontline Soldiers understand what kind of cover can stop a round? A full size round like a 7.62x54 or an 8mm would likely be the standard for selecting something solid enough to get behind.
There is a huge difference between the PPSh and the Stg44 when it comes to urban warfare or close terrain. The PPSh is very controllable in full auto and is basically an accurate bullet hose. The Stg may be good for suppresive fire (noisemaker) in full auto, but accuracy in anything but semi-auto isn't in the cards. The larger round and the movement of the huge operating mechanism back and forth make it a spray and pray weapon in full auto. Take a look at the two on Youtube.
Haven't had the opportunity to fire an STG, but I was under the impression that they're actually extremely controllable in full auto:
YouTube - Larry Vickers and the Sturmgewehr 44
In no small part because they're FREAKING HEAVY.
Yes, they have a Lewis style piston attached to the bolt carrier but relative to the weight of the rest of the rifle it's not that much reciprocating mass. Certainly no worse than any blowback SMG, which will also have an extremely massive bolt. Can't say the controllability of the PPSH particularly impresses:
YouTube - ppsh41
IMO the subguns were just plain outclassed the day the STG-44 started rolling off the lines. The SMG was a byproduct of the need in WWII to arm masses of people very quickly. There is no simpler automatic action than straight blowback. Straight blowback designs do away with lots of high-tolerance machining and can be made with a high degree of automation and unskilled labor out of relatively low-quality materials. Straight blowback SMGs could be and were made by resistance groups in occupied Europe and all sorts of other taxing conditions. Look at the PPS-42; that design was basically thrown together out of junk that happened to be lying around Leningrad when the Germans showed up. And it worked.
The flip side of that is that you get what you pay for. Ergonomics: usually garbage. First shot accuracy: you got to be joking. Range: those leaf sights graduated to 300 meters are a cruel, cruel joke my friend. Safety of operation: never ever drop an open-bolt SMG, they are universally prone to firing when dropped.
The STG corrects every single one of those flaws. It is simply a superior class of weapon.
I suppose if you are in a built up area you could shoot round corners with your STG-44 (only joking), yes the both weapons were very good in there own right, German brilliance and Russian crude but effective.
Wow. If this post was a patient, I'd classify it as Expectant. What kind of cover does riding on top of a tank provide? What type of cover does a "human wave" provide? How easy was it for the Russians to reclaim Stalingrad? Dare I ask about Berlin? Yes, the frontline soldier is in complete and total control of his life during the conduct of war. The officers and civillian leadership merely provide "suggestions". If the smaller pistol round & subgun combo are sooooo great, why is the assault rifle replacing it?
Do you have a MP44-series manual in your library? If not, buy a copy and read how the Germans planned to use it best.
I think the guys above are talking about WW2 here sf, when the age of weaponry was at its most interesting, three German infantry weapons from this period are still in evidence today, the Panzerfaust (RPG) the STG-44 (the kalashnikov ripped it off) and the MG-42, still in service around the world.
The AK series is most definitely not ripped off from the STG. Takedown, bolt lockup and manufacture are all different. The AK takes more from those lend-lease M1 carbines IMO.
yes you are right Mike, I was wrong to say thet comment, Wiki says that some of the components were take off the M1 and the gas opperation was off the STG, But kalashnikov himself said that it was not a direct copy of the STG.
The gas drive could be from the STG; it also has the piston attached to the carrier. Then again, so does the garand, so does the FG-42 and so does the Lewis MG.
Does anyone know if the Soviets got any garands as lend-lease? The working parts of a garand and an AK always struck me as being quite similar.
Interestingly, the initial AK-46 prototype had a separated piston and bolt carrier, left-side charging handle and separated selector and safety.
Anyway, I think sf1_cwo2 is right; if SMGs are so great, then why did everyone switch over to self-loading rifles and assault rifles? IMO the only reason the SMG isn't totally extinct is because they're so dirt simple. Seriously; the simpler SMGs out there make bolt-action rifles look complicated.