Surface ship that sank the most enemy combat ships

This thread is not about the design or power of a ship.

My search here is for the surface ship with the most kills. Everyone knows of the U-boat and sub aces, but what about the surface ships? Carriers, obviously, with their reach and ability to target multiple ships with all their planes, would take the top of the list. But what about battlewagon action?

Which ships had a surprising amount of surface kills?

 

You need to refine your question, are we talking tonnage or number of ships sunk and are we considering merchants as well as warship sinkings?

If "anything goes" I think one of the German armed merchant raiders like Atlantis or Penguin will top the list, the Sharnhost Geisenau pair also had a pretty impressive record including a CV and two DDs.

If we look only at warship sinkings I would need some more research as a lot of sinkings are in multiple ship actions so can't be attributed to a single ship, if we look at just tonnage ships like Bismark that fought a single successful engagement against a very large opponent are going to be rated better than ships that were consistently successful against smaller opponents. Most surface combattants never fought a single surface engagement, off the top of my had some candidates that got involved in multiple successful engagements are:
- HMS Warspite (Narvik and Matapan)
- HMS Valiant (Matapan and Mers El Kebir)
- HMAS Sydney
- Tanaka's Tokio Express destroyers. (But Savo where the biggest allied losses happened was mostly a cruiser affair).
- The Japanese heavy cruisers also need investigating as they had some notable squadron level successes but I can't recall if the same ship was involved in many of them.

IMO a good ranking formula should consider
- the number of engagements
- the tonnage of sinkings
- the tonnage of "shared" sinkings
- the size of the ship itself, a smaller ship should get more credit for the same tonnage.

 

A ship can't be a super-ship unless it is in a convoy. Look at the Bismarck,she was super but since she was not part of her own group,the super of the ship all went down to the sea grave with out giving germany any advantage at all.

Lets just say Bismarck had friends with her,maybe Tripiz and Bismarck- 2 and Bismarck-3 Bismarck-5. This would differently the top super-ships of ww2.

I think in ww2,that Britain had the super-ships of ww2 just barly of cause with America 2nd with super-ships.

My views on this topic,not saying anyone is wrong.

 

I don't quite understand this post, could you clarify it. Such as, what do you mean by the different numbered Bismarcks?, or what about this

What do you mean not part of her own group?

 

Sorry. I will try and repharsed it.

If Bismarck had 4 sisters to make a pack of convoys,she would be a super ship.

Bismarck fought own her own,with out any support. Meanning that the Bismarck should have been in a wolf pack.

 

But the Germany's had enough problems with the Bismarck let alone trying to build others. Why is a supership called a supership when it is in a convoy?

The convoy don't make the ship any more powerful, faster, reliable, or give it more of kill ratio. It is still as powerful whether it is by itself or with 100 other ships.

Wolfpack is a submarine term not for surface ships, plus the Bismarck lost because she got hammered by other Battleships as well as other ships, as well as already being damaged by Navy aircraft.

I still don't understand?

 

I suspect that if you go on a tonnage basis particularly if its a tonnage ratio the top candidates will be Japanese DDs. If you go by numbers then one of the Japanese CA's get's a "honorable" mention. I believe it sunk 5 ships with one salvo of torpdoes. Problem was at least 4 were friendly transports.

 

I'm with you in that the Carriers in the Pacific would lead the way in ships sunk, however as was pointed out many surface engagements are a collection of ships firing on he same ship. During the Solomon Islands campaign it was common that all US ships would concentrate fire on the lead enemy ship.

I would like to throw into the fray the USS O'Bannon. She fought in numerous engagements such as the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, Battle of Kula Gulf, Battle of Kolombangara, and the Battle of Vella Lavella. She was present for the Battle of Leyte Gulf, guarding the northern entrance to Leyte Gulf. She recieved 17 battle stars for her service in WWII, more than any other ship exept the USS Enterprise who recieved 20. Admiral Halsey had this to say of the O'Bannon

In all the actions in which she was a part, not a single seaman earned a Purple Heart.

 

Ok. Um,Bismarck being in a wolfpack convoy would have made the ship advance equitment excell,making her a super ship. She was already big and powerful without any convoy.

Sorry, you are right ,i kust wanted to say my veiws on this topic .

 

Pinguin accounted for 26 ships. Is that the most for a surface vessel? Among warships, what was Scharnhorst's total?

 

I believe you refer to Mogami at Sunda Straits, IMO that episode is suspect, the japanese losses were the transports Sakura Maru, [SIZE=-1]Horai Maru, Tatsuno Maru and Ryujo Maru that all sank in shallow water (the last two were recovered), plus the minesweeper W2. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]As the japanese fired around 90 torpedoes, of which only eight to ten are reported hitting USS Huston and HMAS Perth and the two allied cruisers practically emptied their magazines before being sunk attributing all the japanese losses to Mogami is a bit difficult to believe, most sources split the "friendly fire" between Mogami and Fubuki and credit Huston with W2.[/SIZE]

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau are credited with 22 mechantmen in operation Berlin (8 to Scharnhorst) theAMC Rawalpindi and the warships HMS Glorious, HMS Ardent and HMS Acasta. They also had unconclusive encounters with HMS Renown, HMS Rodney, HMS Malaya and HMS Ramilles. So for number of ships Penguin is still in the lead.



Another possibility is the Malta based K Force .....

 

Ok, sorry about the unclear question. I am not counting tonnage here, merchantmen are somewhat easier to sink than cruisers and battleships. I am counting surface-to-surface, 16 inch brawls.

Also, would the Bismark be the heaviest (weight-wise) ship sunk in close naval combat?

Moderator:
Thread title edited to reflect this clarification.

 

Bismarck and Hood were about the same tonnage, depending on how you calculate it. Who's next among the warships, Fuso and Yamashiro?

 

Think your'e on target
Some data I have but I wont't bet it comparable (should all be metric tonns at least )
Fuso - Yamashiro [original] 29.800 (31.091 normal) )
Fuso - Yamashiro [rebuilt] 35,256 (35.052 )
Kirishima [Rebuilt] 31.980
Sharhnhorst 31.800 (38.900 full load)
Bretagne 22.189 (26.000 full load)

For warship tonnage sunk attributed to a single ship Bismark should lead the pack, (if we discount the Prinz Eugen theory), Hood was huge, but for "top ship" I would go with Warspite or Valiant and for warship tonnage sunk related to own displacement HMAS Sydney, the record probably belongs to Italy's MS 16 but that's not what we are looking for as HMS Glouchester was sunk by torpedo, MS 16's biggest gun was a 20mm not a 16 inch .

Sikh, Legion, Maori and Isaac Sweers against Barbiano and Giussano would also have make sense but the Italian ships could hardly shoot to avoid igniting the aviation fuel barrels they were loaded with.

 

The only difference is the the Bismarck had way better modern equitment than the poor old Hood. Not a fiar battle in my views!

 

Unless you want to include Mutsu's own goal.

 

the KM Hilfkreuzers did a pretty hot job on Allied shipping but what about the Admiral Scheer, haven't pulled up data yet but something stuck in my mind about it's early career hunting down merchant shipping/convoys

 

I think Scheer accounted for a total of eighteen ships.

 

I'm still a little confused over the question. I have quickly compiled a list of Battleships sunk by surface-to-surface action in WWII.
I have:
Hood
Scharnhorst
Bretagne
Kirishima
Fuso
Yamashiro

I did not include battleships sunk by combined surface and air attacks. of these only 4 were sunk by battleships and further only two can be attributed to a single enemy battleship. Hood sunk by Bismark, and Kirishima sunk by Washington. Though technically Kirishima was scuttled.

Am I forgetting any?

 

Tiornu thanks but I need to still dig deep there is quite a nice German web-site for the Scheer with many rare unpublished images running at the moment