One of those just curious moments.... At a range of 500 to 1000 yards, what kind of accuracy is typical for a modern MBT?
I would be surprised if all modern gear wasn't hitting exact dead centre at those ranges. The 'effective' range of most modern guns is 3-4 times the above. While 'effective' obviously also includes hitting power, if accuracy is good enough at 3-4km, it ought to be exceptional at 1000yds.
Not the cannon, so much as the ammunition...APFSDS is high velocity with a flat trajectory and with modern FCS is fairly accurate against a stationary target out to 4-5 km. Against moving targets, probably 3 km or more. A slower, more ballistic round, like the British HESH, is reasonably accurate out to 2-3 km. More if the target is stationary. Of course it goes without saying that you have a trained gunner.
Forgot to add that missIle capable guns can be used to longer direct fire ranges. I don't know if tank guns are still used for indirect fire, but during WW2 and Korea, they were, and did score an occasional kill in this way.
Thanks, I was just curious. I shoot a little and was wondering how accuracy would extrapolate upwards to the really big stuff. I appreciate the help.
MBT's of today are notoriously accurate at the distance given. To the best of my knowledge, the British are the only makers of a rifled tube, 120MM and an incredible number of sharp lands and groves. The Challenger 11 is often quoted for high accuracy but the tube is expensive.. but as Takao says it is the round that determines final accuracy. NATO tanks are largely based on the Rheinmetall 120mm smoothbore tube ( The Frence may be independent) and Warsaw pact tubes are generally 125mm, also smoothbore. I would think out to 1000 yards that would all hit within a radius of 2 feet or less or less but be guessing. I have always been curious about how a sabot releases on the solid billet rounds so smoothly at roughly 5000 fps. Seems like afterward, that would be hard to maintain accuracy though depleted uranium is incredibly dense so it may hold it's course. It also appears the stabilizing fins must be finely made and extremely precise. Any unstabilizing element would seem to move the projectile off over thousands of yards or meters. But modern ammunition is very advanced. The Swedes have a round that senses the distance to a target, adjust it's path to pass over it and explodes on TDC (top dead center to steal an automotive term) so the charge blows through the top of an AV instead of trying to penetrate frontal armor. I suppose everyone has them now. I am sure accuracy is classified initially and live fire exercises give clues but I have never seen a current MDT ballistic chart. somewhere I have an accuracy article comparing the US 75,75, 90 and the 17 pounders but cannot find it in my folders. Gaines
Oh, bushmaster. I have had that same curiosity all my life, even up to battleships, 14" to 18" guns !!! LOL and based on what I was shooting! Great topic to me. Got to find that WW2 tank accuracy article !!!!!!!!! Would love to have data on German, British and Russian tank guns.
I share the same curiosity with the big guns. I'd really like to see the article if you find it. My thanks, Sir.
Do any nations still have smooth-bore cannon's in use on their tanks, I would think maybe Russia and China do?
Most modern tanks have smoothbore guns. The M1 Abrams, Leopard 2, T-90 (both Russian and Japanese), South Korean K1 and French Leclerc are a few examples. The British Challenger 2 is one of the few to have a rifled gun although if I recall correctly they have been examining the Rheinmetall 120mm (used on the Abrams and Leopard 2 among others) as a potential replacement.
Really?! That surprises me quite a bit, so it really does come down to ammunition rather than the cannon itself......mostly?
Ironically the smooth-bore is the modern high tech. Almost all tank guns were rifles until the 1960s, since then almost everyone has transitioned to smooth-bore. The British were about the last major holdout, with their excellent 120mm rifle.
That goes against everything I've ever learned about ballistics, you would think rifled cannons would be more accurate..........but I was wrong
JJ, as I mentioned above smoothbore main tank guns are smoothbore to decrease wear, increase velocity and are stabilized by small fins that start rotation as soon as the projectile leaves the muzzle. The reason for the long narrow pointed rod-like projectile is to concentrate energy on a small point to penetrate the modern laminated armor of current tanks. Also why dense depleted uranium is the material. Smoothbores are the latest technology and certain projectiles can hit 5000 feet per second at the muzzle. Sorry, I posted in the wrong forum. apologies to JJ and others here. Gaines
Speaking of APFSDS rounds, they do some really nasty acrobatics when they hit AFVs. They tend to zip through armor plate fairly easily, and when they impact armor at angles, especially extreme angles, they tend to catch the armor and dig into the plate. I've seen some photos of the results of an APFSDS rounds slicing along the top of a tank turret and then deciding to nose down into the turret itself. The angles in question would have been very close to zero flat trajectory. If no one beats me to it, I'll try find a few photos. Scary stuff in that hitting angled armor plate with APFSDS is actually worse than hitting it at 90 degrees, not that either option is "better" if you are inside the target vehicle.
I'd post a few, but I am on my cell and it is a real PITA. There are several on the world of tanks forums.
Top right and bottom right appear to be the same vehicle. One APFSDS round is slicing along the top and then decides to head down. Very bad for the commander's face I'd guess.
