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The 12 Things Every American Should Know About WWII

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by belasar, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad there's no misunderstanding :). I did forget about there occasional use as labor, so yes that is viable to say they were a part of the war, but I think in the bigger picture the Holocaust is still an event that should be independent. The real question is if the war hadn't happened, would there still be an attempt at such a massive extermination operation. But I think the war would have happened inevitably with Hitler in charge, so I can absolutely understand why you think the Holocaust and WWII should be taught in unison.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  2. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    "The real question is if the war hadn't happened, would there still be an attempt at such a massive extermination operation." - I think the real question is would the war be any different without the Holocaust?
     
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  3. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

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    Even better question.........It's hard to say honestly. This is my total opinion, so criticize as you will. I can't think of a scenario where WW2 happens, and the Holocaust doesn't. Short of Hitler dying, or them losing the war right away, I think it very well would have happened no matter what.
     
  4. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    I disagree that the Holocaust was any part of the foundation of the War in the Far East and the Pacific.
     
  5. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Even better question.........It's hard to say honestly.
    It played zero part in the Australian campaign...and I would hazard a guess and say others too...
     
  6. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

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    I believe KJ might be alluring to organized killing based on race and nationality rather than the Holocaust, I might be wrong, and I'll let KJ speak for himself :p
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    So true, the Chinese and other Asiatic countries suffered frightfully under the Japanese, and the number of Asian civilian dead directly attributed to the Japanese varies greatly between 3 million and 20 million.
     
  8. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    I am using the Holocaust as a general term for the overall massacres perpetrated throughout the world.
     
  9. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    You inferred correctly, sir!
     
  10. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    It is surely a debate. To be honest, never disconnected the two. I can see how it can be looked at in a vacuum.
     
  11. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

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    I leave it up to the people teaching (Such as yourself KJ) to make the call as to whether or not you teach them together. You are a qualified educator, I'm a B average student, so do what you think is best KJ, You're a smart guy, so you'll know what to do :).
     
  12. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate the complement.
     
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  13. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    NEW VERSION
    Since a Ottobefehl :D has been issued to refine this list I offer version 2.0. I will note changes in italics. I am striving to keep the 'tweet length' format for those with a limited attention span.

    ONE
    WWII was waged largely between 1939 to 1945 but events before and after directly connected to the conflict produced the most destructive war in human history. Most of Europe and Asia were devastated by this conflict, led to the deaths of between 50 to 80 million lives and utterly changed the existing world power structure.

    Section One and Two have been combined and streamlined where I could. The final part is new.

    TWO

    The War was waged between two massive military alliances, each with lesser attached allies, that between them represented the 5 most powerful nations of that time. The Axis were led by Nazi Germany in Europe and Imperial Japan in Asia and the Pacific. Opposing them were the Allies consisting of Great Britain and her Commonwealth/Empire, the Soviet Union and the United States of America.

    Originally Section 3, it has been slightly reworded for clarity.

    THREE
    Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Party controlled Germany, while Japan was controlled by a military led War Cabinet that effectively made all decisions in the name of Emperor Hirohito who was largely a figurehead. Winston Churchill led Great Britain and her Commonwealth/Empire for most of the war, while the Soviet Union was led by Joseph Stalin and the Russian Communist Party. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was President of the US though most of the war period and succeeded by Harry S. Truman during the final months of the war.

    Originally Section 4, again it too has been slightly reworded for clarity.

    FOUR
    The principal cause for the war was a rise in militant nationalism within Germany, Japan and other Axis nations as a result of the political and economic disruption caused by the destruction of 4 great empires in the wake of WWI and the peace that followed. Germany, Japan and their ally Fascist Italy all desired to conquer territory in order to create or expand empires that would supply them all the food and natural resources they needed to fuel their war machines. In addition Germany had a more sinister motive as their Nazi race policies called for the systematic elimination of anyone considered undesirable or 'sub-human'. Within Germany this was called 'The Final Solution' and more commonly since the Holocaust.

    Originally Section 5, a reference to WWII and the Versailles treaty included and some rewording.

    FIVE
    The principle victims of the Holocaust was the Jewish population in Europe who lost about 80% of their number. Other victims were Gypsy's, Slavs, Communists, Homosexuals and the Physically and Mentally Handicapped. Japan lacked the same level of organised mass killing or Death Camps, millions suffered cruel treatment and death either through forced labor, starvation. reprisal executions, use of Chemical and Bacteriological testing/use and simple indifference to their fate.

    Originally Section 6, Japanese war crimes are more defined.

    SIX
    The advent of Total War would force the US and her Allies to engage in military actions that remain controversial to this day such as unrestricted air and naval warfare which called for the strategic bombing of cities where much industry was located, sinking merchant ships without warning and the first and only use of Atomic bombs. Politically realities forced many compromises, especially with the Soviet Union who at one time had a quasi alliance with Nazi Germany that reverberate for decades after the end of the war.

    This section is completely new and is meant to address concerns that the friction within the Allies and a perception that the Allies are portrayed as too virtuous....thanks Takao for the more eloquent phrasing.

    SEVEN
    The US did not officially enter the war until December 7th, 1941 when the US Pacific Fleet was attacked at Pearl Harbor though for a considerable period before attempted to provide all aid possible to first Great Britain and then the Soviet Union after Germany invaded Russia. America also used economic and political pressure to contain Japan which contributed to Japan's decision to risk a war with with the United States and her allies.

    This Section has been reworded and the 'Arsenal' comment moved down to Section 8.

    EIGHT

    No significant battles were fought on US soil save Pearl Harbor, but the war would have profound effects upon the American home front. The United States would earn the title of the Arsenal of Democracy due to its industry, natural resources, agriculture and capitol. Factories would spring up all over the country which in turn would draw both women and minorities into the workforce in unrepresented numbers and encourage significant migration around the country. This influx would challenge existing thoughts on equality and race relations.

    Reworded and .'Arsenal' was added.

    NINE

    The high water mark for the Axis was the late summer-fall-winter of 1942 where Germany and her European allies controlled most of Europe from the French Atlantic coast to the river Volga in Russia and from the Arctic circle to the coast of Northern Africa. The Japanese Empire would occupy much of the Asian mainland and a vast area of the Western and Central Pacific Ocean. After this point the Axis would be in retreat on all fronts.

    Reworded slightly.

    TEN
    The War in Europe would end in the late spring of 1945 after the suicide of Adolf Hitler, capture of Nazi capitol of Berlin by Soviet forces and the meeting of Anglo-American forces from the west and the Soviet forces from the east in central Germany. Japan would surrender a few months later as the Home Islands were cut off from the remnants of their empire, a Soviet Declaration of War and the dropping of two Atomic bombs on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

    Reworded slightly.

    ELEVEN

    Within months of the end of the war much of Europe and Asia would be divided into two opposing political and military alliances largely based on where the armies of the victorious Allies stopped. The US would lead the West, while the Soviet Union would control the East. The next 40 years would be called the Cold War and involve numerous brush fire wars, insurrections and other kinds of conflict as both power blocks jockeyed for power and influence. A direct confrontation between the US and the USSR would be avoided due to the fear of escalation to a Nuclear Armageddon. The Cold War would finally end with the collapse of Communism in Europe and Russia.

    Reworded significantly.

    TWELVE
    The United States would emerge as the biggest winner of the war, a homeland untouched by war, a vibrant modern economy and industrial base, cutting edge technology, relatively few casualties, a modern and massive military that could span the globe at will and the first Atomic weapons. This would propel the US into Superpower status not seen since the height of the British Empire. America's wealth, power and industry would, through the Marshall Plan, allow Western Europe and much of Asia to recover much more quickly than they would have on their own and contributed to collapse of Communism and the end of the Cold War.

    Reworded.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  14. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    Since a Ottobefehl :D has been issued to refine this list I offer version 2.0. I will note changes in italics. I am striving to keep the 'tweet length' format for those with a limited attention span.

    ONE
    WWII was waged largely between 1939 to 1945 but events before and after directly connected to the conflict produced the most destructive war in human history. Most of Europe and Asia were devastated by this conflict, led to the deaths of between 50 to 80 million lives and utterly changed the existing world power structure.

    Section One and Two have been combined and streamlined where I could. The final part is new.

    TWO

    The War was waged between two massive military alliances, each with lesser attached allies, that between them represented the 5 most powerful nations of that time. The Axis were led by Nazi Germany in Europe and Imperial Japan in Asia and the Pacific. Opposing them were the Allies consisting of Great Britain and her Commonwealth/Empire, the Soviet Union and the United States of America.

    Originally Section 3, it has been slightly reworded for clarity.

    THREE
    Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Party controlled Germany, while Japan was controlled by a military led War Cabinet that effectively made all decisions in the name of Emperor Hirohito who was largely a figurehead. Winston Churchill led Great Britain and her Commonwealth/Empire for most of the war, while the Soviet Union was led by Joseph Stalin and the Russian Communist Party. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was President of the US though most of the war period and succeeded by Harry S. Truman during the final months of the war.

    Originally Section 4, again it too has been slightly reworded for clarity.

    FOUR
    The principal cause for the war was a rise in militant nationalism within Germany, Japan and other Axis nations as a result of the political and economic disruption caused by the destruction of 4 great empires in the wake of WWI and the peace that followed. Germany, Japan and their ally Fascist Italy all desired to conquer territory in order to create or expand empires that would supply them all the food and natural resources they needed to fuel their war machines. In addition Germany had a more sinister motive as their Nazi race policies called for the systematic elimination of anyone considered undesirable or 'sub-human'. Within Germany this was called 'The Final Solution' and more commonly since the Holocaust.

    Originally Section 5, a reference to WWII and the Versailles treaty included and some rewording.

    FIVE
    The principle victims of the Holocaust was the Jewish population in Europe who lost about 80% of their number. Other victims were Gypsy's, Slavs, Communists, Homosexuals and the Physically and Mentally Handicapped. Japan lacked the same level of organised mass killing or Death Camps, millions suffered cruel treatment and death either through forced labor, starvation. reprisal executions, use of Chemical and Bacteriological testing/use and simple indifference to their fate.

    Originally Section 6, Japanese war crimes are more defined.

    SIX
    The advent of Total War would force the US to engage in military actions that remain controversial to this day such as unrestricted naval warfare, strategic bombing of cities where much industry was located and the first and only use of Atomic bombs. Politically realities forced many compromises, especially with the Soviet Union who at one time had a quasi alliance with Nazi Germany that reverberate for decades after the end of the war.

    This section is completely new and is meant to address concerns that the friction within the Allies and a perception that the Allies are portrayed as too virtuous

    To be continued.......
    [/QUOTE]

    #6 is an interesting addition.
     
  15. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

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    I like the addition of six as well, good for people to know that it wasn't just the war that greatly effected our country, but the political decisions made as well set up the cold war and countless other issues perfectly.
     
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Huh?

    I believe you mean "unrestricted air and submarine warfare" as proclaimed by Admiral Stark...Unrestricted naval warfare died with the battleships at Pearl Harbor. The death of the battle line at Pearl Harbor forced the supporting units of the battle line to step up and take it's place.
     
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  17. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    Well...I see your point but I never said that, lol. Damn this Xenforo. Revolt!!!!

    (Fixed)
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  18. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The Nazis would have to find another slave labor force. This might have meant the western USSR denuded of adults.
     
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  19. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    I believe the extended plan called for a workforce in the east that was educated enough to read enough to do basic labor until the Aryan population grew enough to replace them and then the Russian population would go the same way as other undesirables.
     
  20. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Interesting. Two facts come to mind. The area between the western border of Russia and the Urals in their "breadbasket", and it's the same size, roughly as the US between the Rockies and the Atlantic coast. And, combined together, the US and Russia don't have enough equipment to farm an area that size. Such potential.
     
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