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The Baltic States

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe February 1943 to End of War' started by padutchgal, Feb 28, 2015.

  1. padutchgal

    padutchgal Member

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    Just finished an excellent book, "Walking Since Daybreak" by Modris Eksteins who was a child when the Russians and the Germans took turns invading the Baltic States. They were both murderers, killing the supporters of the other regime and the Germans also killed Jews. Many Latvians supported the Germans and were concentration camp guards and otherwise assisted in the killing of Jewsl

    He goes back and forth between the aftermath of WWI up to the end of WWII and how the citizens were affected.

    However, his main point was the fact that both sides were murderers in WWII, citing the bombing of German cities with the death of millions of citizens, not to mention the forcible transfer of millions of Germans from Eastern Europe to the West resulting of rape and murder.

    Was it necessary to bomb Germany into submission? I don't know what to think.. Sounds like overkill.
     
  2. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    I'm not familiar with Modris Eksteins or his work. You should go and read up on the recently locked down thread about the terror bombing of German cities and figure it out for yourself. Lots of good points brought up there, but the thread went on way too long and got a bit tedious and old towards the end.

    Bottom line here, Germany started the war. Germany brought death, destruction, pain and suffering to too many people. Germany invented terror bombing. Then they had to endure what they forced on other European cities. A horrific regime with a psychopathic mindset had to be destroyed. They kept fighting way past the point they that should have surrendered at. Like the saying goes, "what you sow you will reap". They rolled the dice and crapped out. And had to pay for it many times over what they handed out. And yes, they didn't like the smell of what they were shoveling when it was heaped upon them by the rest of the world.
     
  3. padutchgal

    padutchgal Member

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    I should have given some background to the story. Eksteins and his family were DP's who were finally accepted by Canada. He is a professor at the University of Toronto at Scarborough.

    I was surprised to learn that Canada wasn't very welcoming to DP's. They wanted to keep their percentage of population at 80% English, French and Irish. But tha's another subject.
     
  4. bronk7

    bronk7 New Member

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    war is killing, and killing!! civilians die in wars.....is it murder?? some of it is.....some is not.....rape is part of the human ''culture''...humans can really be human, can't they?
     
  5. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    I can understand that line of thought to a degree. I am in the dark about such subject matter myself. Start a thread on it, who knows.
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Can't say that I have seen any figures that put the German civilian strategic bombing death toll in the millions...Several hundred thousands, yes...But not millions.

    Well, the forced transfer of Germans and ethnic Germans to the West is a double-edged sword. They could have been left in the East and probably would have suffered the same rape & murder, as well as a lot more of it. AFAIK, the Germans were not to well liked in post-war Eastern Europe.

    Was it necessary to bomb Germany into submission...Is it necessary to breath. The "mistake" of World War I was not going to be repeated, the whole of Germany would know that they were beaten, and there would be no more "sold out by the politicians" rubbish.
     
  7. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    I think that rubbish you mention was called the "stabbed in the back" syndrome. German WW1 veterans felt that they were still holding their own in the field and were not beaten. It was an "armistice" after all, not a surrender. They even had victory parades in Berlin later on when the troops returned from Africa, the Eastern and Western Fronts. Not so after WW2. There was no question about who won and who didn't in April 1945.

    And on the German civilian enforced evictions, I think that the Soviet line of thought was to rid the areas that were no longer German territory of "future problems". Especially the Sudeten Germans. Can't say that I blame them on that action.
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The Baltics states at least had a horrible WW2 period. First the Red Army conquered and made a putsch, then Germans made a putsch and then the Red Army made a putsch again...

    On those WW1 veterans there many Jewish soldiers who were awarded the Iron Cross class I and two. They were surprised that as a German patriot they were taken to the camp and killed...
     
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  9. denny

    denny Member

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    That is always an interesting topic.
    If the Nazis had been "Anti-Muslim".....or just plain German Nationalists, think of all the German Jews that would/might have Designed/Worked On .....German:
    Submarines
    V1 and V2 Rockets
    Jet Aircraft
    and just plain fought as members of the SS and Wehrmacht.
     
  10. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Or the top scientists. I recall something like some 20 world´s top men ( Nobel price winners ) went to the States because Hitler would have killed them as Jews. One of them was Einstein.
     
  11. denny

    denny Member

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    Yeah...just one more reason that The Germans lost the war.
    They excluded (to their own detriment) many, many of the very best and brightest based on that person's religion, political, and/or sexual slant. Who knows what might have happened.....
    Of course, the USA was bad in the same arena. Their philosophy of a "red under the bed" almost prohibited Oppenheimer from running the Manhattan Project.
    We all missed intellectual opportunities because of our backward policies and fears/prejudices.
    The Germans seemed to have excelled in it ..... :)
     
  12. padutchgal

    padutchgal Member

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    I read a book, "Hitler's Jewish Soldiers." by Bryan Mark Rigg which tells about the Jewish men who served in the German military in WWII. Many of them were high-ranking officers who were part-Jewish and had been considered fellow officers before Hitler's racial policies went into effect. Luftwaffe General Erhard Milch was of Jewish descent which the Germans conveniently ignored. The application of the "racial purity" law was marred by inconsistencies and often "exemptions" were made to allow a soldier to stay within the ranks or to spare a soldier's relative from incarceration or worse.
     
  13. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Yes, for instance Göring said that " I decide who´s a Jew and who is not"....
     
  14. denny

    denny Member

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    His brother,Albert, deserves the Nobel Peace prize, and any other Decency/Humanitarian award that is available. Talk about a contradiction and an irony.......
     
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  15. Highway70

    Highway70 Member

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  16. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Thanks for bringing him to our attention.
     
  17. padutchgal

    padutchgal Member

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    That's the first I ever heard of him. You learn something new every day!
     
  18. denny

    denny Member

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    Yeah...kind of, almost, hard to believe...isn't it.?
    It would be easy to think a guy was pulling your leg, full of shit, or whatever.
    It really is a shame he does not get more press.
    Talk about a Movie that is just Waiting To Be made.......
     
  19. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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  20. Smiley 2.0

    Smiley 2.0 Smiles

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