The Battle Of Attrition Begins In Normandy!

Spaniard,

I am unable to see the relevance of your war diary citation. If that was meant to prove your post about Patton--I hope it isn't--you have forgotten only Americans fought in the Third Army. If entry in the diary was meant to support your assertion that Normandy campaign was poorly fought, than you have some very unrealistic expectations of Warfare. I can produce off the bat three to five incidences in which the German conquest of France suffered appalling casualties, failure of tactics, logistical collapse, and plain bad operational decisions. Yet it was considered one of the greatest triumphs in military history.

May I ask you a question: if you think Normandy went badly, please identify particular shortcomings in the campaign that was not common or typical of the regular challenges or friction in other military campaigns of the Second World War because so far, I have seen none.

 

You might not see no relevance, But I might. What your Opinion of the Facts count because you see it that way? Hog-Wash. As what war diary are you talking about? If It's the Watch's, Watch your Ground.


A dose American-Italian, an so Forth Count for the 3rd US Army. What a question

First I Wrote 2009 Tactical books on Ranger Urbain warfare, as One On IED's & EFP's Primitive as Modern Booby-Traps building and defusing.

So Just "Per Say" It was a Great Victory, all through Normandy, But everything went wrong, Hell in High Waters. Many brave souls Died Needlessly and wen not warranted. They Suffered horrendously Mentally as Physical that many never wanted to talk about It. And I see that from a few I tried to interview Them. Not Count the Civilian devastation.

This is one good example of many loosing their Lives, Plus all the bull that came with it. In Canada We Value Life, Ok maybe not Simonds.

Just like Bloody Omaha 2,500 Casualties and a Great Success, All covered Up lies from the US Allied propaganda Machine, now estimated around and under 5,000 casualties.

Please as a X NCO CF Certified Soldier Never take command of any of my Men.

So Cabra by the Time they got to St.Lo 5,000 C and that's OK I guess what the Heck throw 3,000 more men to Die in the end will be a Great Victory.

You Failed to Completely Miss understand what I was Getting at!

Yes A Great Victory for the Allied forces Which Fought Like Poet Warriors. Fight in Overwhelming odds in many Cases. Jerry was more Seasoned then them and so Forth.

But Chose as Mayhem Issued in many battles in Normandy and many Soldiers as Civilians Died when Not Warranted or could of been Prevented and thats a fact as my point. And when you loose so many in that matter that's no great battle to me, as a Canadian Trained Soldier.

I'm not questing the actions of the Allied Troops Gallant Heroics in Normandy!

Well read what happened In Op Spring! Never mention as a great Battle, More like a train wreck. And till this date the most vigorously discussed By Canadian H++++and fill with Issue.

What happened when the Germans halted Op Totalize?




I Have to send A PM To J.W. I have a new Thread Warning!

I will Be Debunking many of his claims. A Canadian World Renowned WWII Historian! Considered an Expert! In the Battle for Normandy, as the Battle for V. Ridge that was just to high. Unfortunately not many will be able to partecabte, due to the expertise detailed Nature need as decades of research and assessment, and interviews with Primary Sources, first hand accounts and It's Very Canadian. You'll all understand when you Read. Comments or your point of View or assessment will be Greatly Appreciated as taken into consideration, historian diploma not needed when you've done years of leg Work, as many of our Respected members have. Heck in my time all Copies, no Computers or Web Sites to archive or search for info..

 

Primary Source first had accounts of what My Regimental Brothers horrifically endured in Normandy. http://wwii.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1052&page=3

Black Watch O.R. War Diary IFS, HILL 67, 22nd. Tues.
Weather-still raining. Mortaring and shelling continues on a heavy scale and casualties are mounting. The R.A.P. continues to shine in evacuating casualties under all sort(s) of conditions. In the morning the Bn beat off a Jerry counter attack. The C.O. handled the situation very well. Lt. McGILL was wounded in the back by shrapnel. End

On July 22, 1944, Field-Marshal Bernard Montgomery, commander of the 21st Army Group, ordered Simonds to devise a “breakout offensive” along Verrières Ridge, to be launched in conjunction with Operation Cobra. Montgomery's was concern and feared a "false start" of Operation "Cobra", when bad weather in the afternoon caused action to be suspended after bombing had begun and thought it would give his plan away.

Black Watch O.R War Diary IFS, HILL 67, 23rd. Wed. { First it's Point 67 not hill. Many have claimed Maj. Fraser was Killed on hill 67, since it's mentioned in the BWORWD, but not his name. It was at Point 61, not Point 67 as most Black Watch veterans and the War Diary recall, that a rocket shell killed Major George Fraser seconds after verifying, on the morale and safety of his men dug into the wheat fields on Point 61.} All Historians have made the same Mistake, No Hills in that location more like very gently sloped and not high at all. And in 101 Military map reading and Navigation. On the Original British Tactical Battle Maps Pt.67.


Weather - cloudy. Around 0100 hrs mines were laid on the road on the left of our posn. At 0400 hrs a German fighting patrol approximately 50 strong infiltrated through the forward companies and attacked the Command Post. A short sharp fight ensued, lasting 15 minutes. Our casualties were one killed and one wounded while Fritz lost 17 killed and four wounded, while 22 prisoners were taken. During the day mortaring and shelling continued on a heavy scale with the C.O. taking all possible counter measures. At night a standing patrol was sent out to prevent the Germans from repeating last night's performance. Capt. TRAVERSY was wounded today by shrapnel. Support Coy H.Q. was wiped out by a direct hit. End


Diary of Private W.T. Booth (D-83056) Intelligence Section of Battalion Headquarters, First Battalion Black Watch.

On the 23rd of July, a German fighting patrol "infiltrated through the forward companies and attacked the Command Post," as the Diary reports. It was 4 o’clock in the morning. There was suddenly a burst of shouting in German, and in English to the rest of us to stay in our slit trenches, and from behind us there immediately came the roar of machine gun fire. The War Diary doesn’t mention it, but the machine gun fire came from a unit of the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa, a medium machine gun battalion defending the Command Post. The man in our regiment which the Diary reported killed was an anti-tank gunner named Bulow whose six-pounder gun was positioned about a hundred yards ahead of the Command Post. When dawn broke in a heavy mist, the Germans who had survived walked toward us, hands on their heads and calling out “Kamerad.” They all wore field caps, not steel helmets. One of the men I was guarding seemed to be in his late forties. He was calm and asked me if we were “Amerikanisch.” One of the pockets of his tunic bulged with his shaving gear. Perhaps the patrol was for him a way of resigning from the war.




Diary of Private W.T. Booth (D-83056) Intelligence Section of Battalion Headquarters, First Battalion Black Watch. for the July 25th 44.

Around 3:30 in the morning of July 25 the rifle companies began to make their way from the area of Beauvoir Farm to the town of St Andre-sur-Orne, a part of which the Queen’s Own Camerons of Canada had been clinging to the past few days. A report had come from them that the town was clear, and the Black Watch moved forward to their forming up point in preparation for its role in the second phase of the operation named "Spring." The fighting transport (F Echelon) of the regiment remained in the town of Ifs along with the men in Battalion HQ who had not been on Hill 67. Three of us from the I Section (Sgt. Fred Janes, "Dolly" Lessard, and I) were to precede the rifle companies to St. Andre and then, according to our orders, into St. Martin-de-Fontenay to lay white tape marking the forward edge of the forming-up point. The tape was wound on a signals reel. St. Martin is sister to St. Andre, alongside an apple orchard which was soon laced with tracer fire from a machine gun. St. Martin had not been cleared. There was nothing to do but take cover where we were. I found a German slit trench in the orchard and at first light, as the vehicles of F Echelon began pulling into a large field behind us, moved across the road to a ditch with a hedge running alongside it. Looking over the hedge, one could see the wreckage of a bomber knocked down during operation Goodwood and beyond it the gentle rise of the grain fields to the crest of the Verrieres Ridge. The grain was about waist high at that time. Soon the vehicles in the vehicle park and those dug in around them and in the ditch running along the road would come under observed fire from the ridge and, though I think most of us didn’t know it at the time, from high ground west of the Orne.

The entry in the Diary: "May - sur - Orne. 25th Fri." reflects some of the confusion and problems in communication on that day. The Black Watch was never in May - sur - Orne except for a patrol or two sent in by Major Phillip Griffin then acting C.O. since Lt. Col. Cantlie had been killed while on reconnaissance in the early hours of the morning and the senior company commander, Major Motzfeldt who was with him wounded. In the first phase of the attack the Queen’s Own Camerons who were to secure the towns of St. Andre and St. Martin-de-Fontenay were unable to do so because the enemy continued to infiltrate the area. The Calgary Highlanders who were to go through the Camerons and take the May-sur-Orne, about a kilometer south, got to the town but were unable to hold their position there.

We assumed that the rifle companies began their advance about mid-morning, though we had no communication with them. They had been strung out along the walls and hedgerows on the eastern side of St. Martin and were to advance to their start line, a road running out of May and up to the crest of the ridge, where they were to follow a creeping barrage onto their objective, Fontenay-le-Marmion. By the time they reached the start line their casualties were heavy. They had come under fire from the ridge and from May-sur-Orne on the right flank. Only some 60 men reached the crest of the ridge; some 15 were able to make their way back down. Griffin’s body was found among those who reached the crest.


Later that morning, the Germans turned their attention to the vehicle park and to the men dug in at the side of the road. I remember that the first mortar rounds - three of them - were dropped on the airplane wreckage in the field to the east of the road. We guessed that they were either ranging shots or were intended to kill or drive out snipers who might have been concealed there. This was followed by a methodic "walking" of mortar bombs up and down the ditch and hedgerow. This fire continued at intervals. At the same time fire was brought down on the men and vehicles on the other side of the road. Particularly terrifying were the shells from the 88mm gun with its high muzzle velocity and the flat trajectory of its shells which came in on us with a shriek and near simultaneous explosion. Mortar bombs by contrast gave some advance notice of their approach. By this time (early afternoon perhaps) a number of the vehicles were on fire. Later the field was covered, it seemed, with burning vehicles including an armored one with slits for windows, but not a recce car as I remember, which gave off roiling black smoke.


In digging my slit trench I had struck a thick root which I wouldn’t cut with my shovel. I moved back up the ditch about seven or eight feet and began digging there. Above me at about the same distance two of our signalers had dug quite a deep trench for themselves. I had dug a shallow trench when the Sergeant of the I section, Fred Janes, came across the road and began digging the trench which I had abandoned. Before that he had dug in along side the I section vehicle. He had not been long digging when we heard a mortar bomb coming in. In a matter of seconds we knew it was coming in on us when the feathery sound a mortar bomb has as it descends changed to a roar. I pressed down as flat as I could but the trench was too shallow to allow me to get below the surface. When the bomb exploded it felt as if a giant foot had stepped on my back and driven the air out of my lungs. Barely moving, I tried to "feel" if I’d been hit. I sat up and looked to where Janes had been digging; only a blackened depression remained. The recognizable half of Janes lay on the road.


Above the two signalers sat motionless in their trench. They were both dead but not a mark could be seen on their bodies. Whether it was another bomb on that particular stroll up the ditch I didn’t know. If so, then I had been bracketed and left without a scratch. Though I didn’t think these thoughts then, later I wondered if on the next round a slight adjustment of the sights on the mortar wouldn’t have made it a clean sweep.

I think it was about mid-afternoon at that point. It seemed that most of the vehicles in the field had been hit. A pall of smoke and dust hung over the park. There had been no word of rifle companies, no one there in that scene to organize and direct those who were still alive. For those of us in the I section - "Dolly" Lessard, Ray Dubuc, who had come down in the trucks later in the morning, myself and the driver - there was nothing to do but get out. Lessard, who was a little ways down the ditch toward St. Andre, shouted to me and we both ran across the road to the truck. The driver and Ray Dubuc ran over from their trenches. The steel frame that supported the canvas canopy had been cut in two on one side by shrapnel. Jerry tins of gas had been spilled but had not caught fire. The tires on one side I remember had been blown and there was a large hole in the engine hood but no critical part had been damaged. We jumped in, the driver floored the accelerator, and we raced up the hill to Fleury-sur-Orne. Major Mitchell became C.O. and the Battalion went into reserve until its rifle companies could be brought up to strength.

 

Are you tell me you don't know those are the Estimated Counts I've mixed up nothing of total Casualties I state IMO all estimated accounts and only God knows the real numbers. You cant even prove me wrong since there documented Fact. Please tell me what numbers are not correct or presumed incorrect, By you?

In total, the Battle of Verrières Ridge had claimed upwards of 2,800 Canadian casualties. Zuehlke, p. 166–168.

They suffered heavy casualties and territorial gains were minimal. From July 25 to July 27, another attempt was made to take the ridge as part of Operation Spring. Poor execution. Reid, p. 52

In Operation Totalize The columns from the Canadian 2nd Division were delayed by fog and unexpected opposition on their right flank, but by noon on August 8, the Allied forces had captured the entire Verrières Ridge.Roy, p. 167

Therefore it was still Agust 8th and still fighting for Verrières Ridge.


Operation Totalise, Although significant strategic successes had been made during the first phases of the assault, heavy casualties were taken by the two Allied armoured divisions in their attempt to push towards Falaise. Bercuson, p. 230

Major General Rod Keller was removed from his command of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division after having been badly wounded when his headquarters were hit by misdirected bombs during an American air attack on German positions. Keller's poor performance in Totalize lost the trust of General Crerar; he would receive no further command positions for the remainder of the war. Bercuson, p. 230



Operation Spring, despite its cost, had drawn the 9th SS Panzer Division away from the US sector on the eve of Cobra's launch. Hastings, p. 256


Operation Cobra. I think many better look at all that 20yrs Hand me down recycled info and up date it Fast.

Only two Panzer Divisions with 190 tanks now faced Bradley's First Army.

To gain good terrain for Operation Cobra, Bradley and Collins conceived a plan to push forward to the Saint-Lô–Periers road, along which VII and VIII Corps were securing jumping-off positions. On 18 July, at a cost of 5,000 casualties, the American 29th and 35th Infantry Divisions managed to gain the vital heights of Saint-Lô, driving back General der Fallschirmtruppen Eugen Meindl's II Parachute Corp. Hastings, p. 249

Total casultie Counts.

Note this count is from D-Day to the end of August. The American Army-Group suffered 20,838 killed, 94,881 wounded and 10,128 missing for a total of 125,847 casualties. To these casualties it should be added that 4,101 aircraft were lost and 16,714 airmen were killed in direct connection to Operation Overlord. Thus total Allied casualties rises to 226,386 men, of whom 53,150 were killed. Tamelander, M, Zetterling, N (2004), Avgörandes Ögonblick: Invasionen i Normandie. Norstedts Förlag, p. 341.


The Americans suffered 2,400 casualties at Omaha - and this is principally why the attack is remembered. It is easy to overlook the fact that despite the casualties, 34,000 troops had been landed by the end of the day on this blooded beach. this has been belived for a long time. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/omaha_beach.htm

Casualties for V Corps were estimated at 3,000 killed, wounded and missing. The heaviest casualties were taken by the infantry, tanks and engineers in the first landings. The 16th and 116th RCT's lost about 1,000 men each. Historical Division, War Department. 20 September 1945. p. 109. http://www.army.mil/cmh/books/wwii/100-11/ch5.htm. Retrieved 2007-06-10.





Bloody Omaha.Richard Hammond presents Bloody Omaha (Part 1 of 6)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-kZusY1w3c[/YOUTUBE]

Originally Posted by Spaniard
I guess we forgot after the Canadian and British sacrifice for Op Cobra, I think just after Totalise, Note British sources Spell it with a S not a Z. Patton was warned to halt the advance by Bradley, Since they had run out of oil and fuel. Did Patton listen???? I'll give all three guesses the first two don't Count.


Patton ran out of gas? General Patton's offensive, however, came to a screeching halt on August 31, 1944, as the Third Army literally ran out of gas near the Moselle River, just outside of Metz, France. One explanation for this was that Patton's ambition was to conquer Germany, and refused to recognize that he was engaged in a secondary line of attack.[27]

I know Cobra and Totalize are on defrent Dates, Holy Moly Nor does it say that on that MSG

 

Is there anyway possible you can cite the primary source? The link you provide only refers back to another website that you have posted the same information.

Your style of posting and quality of writing diminishes the source and reflects negatively on you and the subject.

 

I have to point out that he did explain the problems with his writing, and we do accept language difficulties from others who are from other countries; in addition the dyslexia is an issue. Admittedly, spell check would help if done on a word processing program first and then copied here.

Thank you, Spaniard for citing the sources this time for the various statistics, etc.

You are extremely passionate about Verrieres Ridges, and the campaigns of the Black Watch. Can I mention that it is the vehemence of your passion that causes others to question the validity of your claims. We tend to expect narrations of historical fact to be more neutral. Your passion drives you to want to make others see the issue, but all people are seeing is the emotion and not the information you are trying to share.

I have to state, though, that I still don't see proof that Simonds was reckless and arrogant with the lives of the Canadian soldiers as you claim.

 

I honestly could care less about his spelling. I am more aggrevated with the inconsistent font which changes size and style throughout each of his missives. I have come to accept the endless sentences and general lack of direction.

 

To members This is between Madame Mechelle and me.

First I'm about debunk one of Own Historians, therefore get a Cup of Tea.

Second Americans have a hard time excepting or being creterside nor can they handle the Truth when it come to their Skeletons in the Closet.

My spelling is not a problem the way I phrase or in Grammar. I have to edit many times to get it Just right.

What many don't Get is that Canadian and American English are not same nor in Expression, grammar, ect.

As you know Canadians have a different view concerning WWII then Americans do. What they fail to comprehend, the View they have of themselves is not shared by the rest of the World, ask any Canadian what they think of American you no what they'll say. Therefore I'll say no more out of Respect for the Americans I served with. That's why understand were Judgehead is coming from Just hang out with Marines and you'll Know.

American Propaganda in Canada is taken with a heavy pinch of Salt for those that don't know.

LLoyd from CTV News, Newspapper, Talk shows ect. call It the American propaganda Machine.

As Example of Thousands. Just Google You'll all see

The US Propaganda Machine: Oh, What a Lovely War​

Published on Thursday, March 30, 2006 by the Independent/UK
The US Propaganda Machine: Oh, What a Lovely War The Lincoln Group was tasked with presenting the US version of events in Iraq to counter adverse media coverage. Here we present examples of its work, and the reality behind its headlines.​

If that's one of those Questionable Sites let me Know was first on the List.​

I seem to have proven so many times as I had to support all my Claims since Non had a clue or refused to except it due to the Recycled hand me down Info their used to, as you see I have many first had accounts original records I go by.​

As example why I now question if many are like Bill O'Reilly , on this site? Like you know many in the US are trying to change WWII ect. History to suet there agenda. I know no Link is needed to prove that!​

This has to do more with lets Get Spanird, then anything else who are you kidding. LOL They read and then assume and add words into your mouth a you said this and that when It's never even mention nothing nor did I write that comment, and has been expressed in threads and by members, so Got Blocked after they snapped others have left in disgust and thats a Fact. You want Links I got many. ​

Now I've argued a few Times that there was A big problem with Operation Totalize. Everybody Calls it a great success and when I said No everybody jumped down my Throat. It looks that either they want it to be forgotten or wepped under the Rug.​

Read Stacey's report ot Totalize, was no walk in the park.​

Operation Totalise, Although significant strategic successes had been made during the first phases of the assault, heavy casualties were taken by the two Allied armoured divisions in their attempt to push towards Falaise. Bercuson, p. 230​

Major General Rod Keller was removed from his command of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division after having been badly wounded when his headquarters were hit by misdirected bombs during an American air attack on German positions. Keller's poor performance in Totalize lost the trust of General Crerar; he would receive no further command positions for the remainder of the war. Bercuson, p. 230​

So two division took heave Casualties Do you know Why ? Read Stacey's report.​

Just like all the explanation I did for Cobra. It just goes to show that many are?​

As example I have over 200 documented accounts concerning Americans actions in WWII. There all Documented in the Canadian Archives, if I would make a Thread on one like I did Before the Americans on this Site would then Snap, Judges will come in cause havoc and close the Thread as he has been involved in 100rds of threads being closed by the Mods. If i used language or conduct like Him I would have been removed from this site. ​

And as you've seen If i don't share their assement or facts of a battle, They get Nasty, one can't express his or her point of View without many coming in an become verbaly expesive, for a choice of word I have in minde. etc​

Many already know Mechelle we have a double Stander. or Like I heard meantioned, Pro American site.​

See You Mechelle ​

Read The Next Page.​

.

 

Should I call this;

Debunking Canadian Historian David Okeefe's Ghostly Myths of Verrières. Orrr Waite for it!

Spaniard Muddies The Ghostly Waters On The Ridge Of Verrières! LOL.



First you forgot 2 ok 3 of the Most Important Myths Mr. O'keefe, Shame on you! A few of his myths are questionable, and debatable as Mr. O'keefe's assessment in this matter, very informative as Black Watch, even though I know many of these Myths hold water. Debunking David O’keefe’s Myths of Verrières! I think Not His a Regimental Brother, and will give him the Respect His Regimentally Earned or our beloved RSM will crack his brand new hickory Stick on my lovely Derrière on the crest of Verrières. I'm not El Matador Aka Proffesore Copp's. It's to be noted that Mr. O’Keefe is a Canadian Historian as The Black Watch Historian and classified as an expert of this Epic battle for Verrières Ridge.

Mr o'keefe doesn't realise that the Landscape in Jul 25th 1944 was very different then when he Filmed his documentary. I don't need to walk the Land from Caen to Verrières Ridge back gentle slope, to Fontenay-le-Marmion. All I need is to close my Eyes, I can precisely give you a detailed layout of the Land, since The Black Watch (RHC) in 1977-78 ensured I was properly trained and Regimentally motivated. The Watch trains you for a year an embeds the Regimental History, only after a year as you receive the Rank of Pte. your award for those efforts as given the privilege and right to wear a "Canadian Flavoured Red Bloomed Hackle" even in death. I was informed of this battle in question, in my studies I was alarmed by the Height casualties and always believed Simonds left one hell of a Stain on The Watch's Tartan.

His opening statement, mentions 320 Men of the Black Watch attacked the Ridge, only 20 made roll call that night.

Terry Copp’s Op Spring a historians View, states The Black Watch suffered 307 casualties on 25 July. Five officers and 118 other ranks were killed or died of wounds, 101 were wounded and of the 83 taken prisoner, 21 were wounded.

Spaniard; In all accounts they claim only 15 made it back to the Start-line and since Capt Campbell Stuart was left behind to man the wireless Radio that makes 16, survived the attack on the Ridge, that’s 323 men left the start line. It's Fact that some made it back that night to the Church, but it wasn't 4, not according to "Sir Cpl. Duke's" account to me,{RIP Duke you'll never be forgotten}. The Callgarins account Claim they found around Forty Black Watch on the early morning on the 26th gathered in a defencive position. It should also be called the Jump-off Point since the Black Watch never made it to the start-line on the narrow dirt road that connected May to Fonetenay, actually it was a Dirt path used by the Miners and the Villagers called "The Miners Road."

Canadian National Archives


Myth #1. " Hill 67."



Thury-Harcourt road running from Caen.

Named after the height represented on British Army survey maps. and you still got it wrong "Hill"



Myth #2. “St. Andre-sur-Orne”

The Black Watch called it the Battle of St. Andre? I've Talked to Regimental brothers that survived Verrières Ridge manytimes over a few cold ones from 1978 and I never heard that comment, however I'm sure The Cameron's of Canada, who fought and died for 4+ days in St. Andrea would take offence to that comment. I've heard the battle for St. Martin! The Black Watch was never in St. Andre or fought there, just on the Crossroad that lead to the Village since the Watch on the Crossroad would have to turn left to get to May, as the Black Watch helled a defencive position in the Church near the Factory!


Myth # 3. The Megill/Griffin meeting in St. Martin.

This will Be good I can assure you. I have Strong evidence that can't be Debunked, Not even By you Mr.Copp's, LOL.



Myth # 4. Artillery and Tank support.



I have DNA Picture that shows foot prints of movements in great haste, coming out and in, of the Vent-Tunnel and It's Big, used for shelter 110%, Yes they were used! Plus I found German accounts that confirms there use. To what extent I will confirm soon.

 

Soucre Canadian National Achives, Copp's, Col. Stacey and me Operation Spring Who's To Blame for the Horrific Carnage? - Page 3 - Canada at War Forums

To further support my Claims concerning Simonds and It's Spelt with 1 M i was told, LOL. Yes seen both ways
many times. I can clearly show the unqualified reckless arrogant behaviour of Lt.-Gen. Guy Simonds. His
Favorite expression that I know you don't Know or would be surprised if you did is “Get Cracking”.

Monty and Lt.-Gen Miles Christopher Dempsey Aka, “Lucky” or “Bimbo” where alarmed contacting Canadian high
command concerning Simonds actions in past operations since D-Day, as the needless high casualty rates, using
daylight open field attacks were ill-conceived nor part of WWII tactical procedures.



Bernd “Monty’ was not pleased when his Canadian Division Commander fired Brigadier Howard Graham, commander
of the 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade. “Monty” wrote to Corps Commander Oliver Leese: “This is a great pity. Graham
is an excellent fellow and much beloved in his brigade. I expect Simonds lost his temper. Simonds is a young and very
inexperienced divisional general and has much to learn about command. In my highest opinion of Simonds...[although he]
tried to go off the rails once or twice when he first went into action with his Div. Simonds must therefore be handled carefully
and trained on.


I have many more plus look in the Archives those Original letters are there. You have to get an Appointment and view them under glass,
No You can't Copy them they don't Allow it because the Light damages the Original.

 

Spaniard,

1. I am indeed missing your point, since I saw in your post evidence of hard fighting against a tactically competent enemy, not operational or logistical incompetence, as you seem to suggest.

2. Patton's drive against Moselle failed. It was the most heavily fortified sector of the "Siegfried Line", and thanks to the counterattacks made by 2 Pz. Bde., 1 Pz. Div. and 2 PGDs, the Germans were able to fully man their lines.

3. As this campaign occurred after 29 August, which is generally accepted as the conclusion of the Normandy campaign, this caveat doesn't bear any relevance to your argument that Normandy was a badly commanded operation.

4. I am not aware of any creditable historian, American or British, who did not respect German tactical competence at the small unit level. However, in operational terms, Normandy was a triumph. If you felt nothing went according to plan in the Allied camp, perhaps you should think how did the German plan fare.

 

i understood gen.leese was a corps commander in the 8th army in n,africa ,sicily and finally in italy,before taking command of 8th army.where was brigadier graham wounded?,sicily,italy?.just to clarify please.

 

Please don't assume I as a Canadian share the same view as you. It is a sweeping statement and a generalization that is the type of thing that causes misunderstandings between people. I have my own opinion and interpretations regarding history and current events, that are based upon the knowledge and information to which I have been exposed - as do you. I am very proud to be a Canadian but my nationality is not what defines who I am or my opinion. Only the uninformed or those purposely blind to greater truths regurgitate blind nationalism. The more of the world we see and the more peoples we meet, we learn how much we have in common and how little really divides us. Canadians and Americans are each others closest allies, and what the media - both Canadian and American - often report is whatever they think (often erroneously) the people who pay for advertisements want to hear. If I can I read or watch Canadian, American, British, and possibly another countries interpretation of major stories so that I get a rounder viewpoint rather than one that has a political agenda.

This is not my statement or responses to your posts that are "between Madam Mechelle and I" (The name is Michelle - and I do not require the Madam, thanks....I'll take Lady Michelle if you really want to add an honorific to my name ). I don't have time for the next few days, re I have other life responsibilities, but I will be back to look at each point and either rebut or agree. I honour my Canadian WWII Veteran father and all those who served and you have made statements which reflect nothing I've learned in years of reading or in the years of hearing my Dad speak of what occurred - and the man had an IQ that blew most people's out of the water!

Please do note that I do agree with formerjughead that it would be easier to read if you stayed within one font and did not bold unless necessary. It makes reading your statements very disjointed and makes them appear to be copied from others rather than something you wrote. Which probably is another reason you get asked for sources so much.

I'll go do something else now to take my blood pressure back down...