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The British also had a Jet operational in 1944, so why does the Me 262 get all the credit?

Discussion in 'Military Training, Doctrine, and Planning' started by GunSlinger86, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. harolds

    harolds Member

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    The problem was to get down to landing speed. A German pilot had to slowly reduce engine rpm s so that his motors wouldn't flame out while cross controlling to create drag-something the 262 didn't have a lot of. Therefore he had to start thinking about landing almost as soon as he broke contact with the enemy.
     
  2. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Firstly it was the first operational jet "fighter"...the Arado was already flying by this time...nothing above disputes this.
    Secondly the Germans were hampered by not having the correct materials...especially in terms of heat resistance, so had to make everything out of steel...
     
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  3. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

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    You're right. I didn't read you original post carefully enough.

    And while he was wallowing around in his landing approach, along comes Mr Mustang and ..........
     
  4. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Simply flying doesn't mean that it fits any of the miitary defintions of "operational". For planes it often means when they first saw regular squadron service. The Arado may still hold the title but not enough has been posted to make it clear.
     
  5. harolds

    harolds Member

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    The two countries had different systems for getting a new plane into service. The British would provide the new gear to a regular squadron in order to get experience that could be passed on to others. The Meteor was first given to 616 squadron for this purpose in late '43 or very early '44. The German system was to place the first of any new plane with a proving detachment (erprobungskommando) which would test the new equipment in combat. Erprobungskommando 262 was formed in April '44 with combat operations starting in July.
     
  6. harolds

    harolds Member

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    The British and Germans had different methods of bringing a new airplane on line. The British used a system where they gave the first examples produced to a squadron so as to get a mass of experience to be passed on to other units when they got the new plane. The British chose 616 squadron to break in the Meteor. They got the new plane starting in very late '43 or early '44. The first V-1 interceptions started in late July of '44.

    The German system used a proving unit (erprobungskommando) to do the same thing. Eprobungskommando 262 was formed in April of '44 and the first real combat occurred about the same time as the British. However, some tentative 262 fighter bomber missions may have begun earlier.
     
  7. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    When did they start doing this? For instance did they follow this procedure with the FW-190?
     
  8. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Yes! Erprobungsstaffel 190 was started in March of '41 under the command of Oberleutnant Otto Behrens.
     
  9. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Just to add that 1971 V-1s were brought down by AA fire, 1979 by aircraft under RAF command and 40 by USAAF. The Hawker Tempest was the supreme anti-V1 aircraft, together with the Spitfire XIV. Mosquitoes , Spitfire MkIXs and Typhoons also scored well.
     
  10. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    When did it see combat? Did the Germans consider it an operational unit or a test unit?
     
  11. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Actually, they were both. Their job was to test the new aircraft under combat conditions and then help other units who were converting to it. The erprobungsstaffel 190 combat debut was somewhat delayed because overheating problems with the new BMW engine. After units were converting without problems the staffel was disbanded and its members returned to their parent unit.
     
  12. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    The American Heroes Channel has the series Nazis: Evolution of Evil, and they said it again, the the 262 was the world's first operational jet fighter, when actually the Meteor was in service first.
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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  14. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    I have caught that series a few times and did wonder what sources they are using. It's not an awful series, but they seem to make a few mistakes. I believe, as it has been mentioned above, since the Meteor was not engaged in "typical" fighter situations, they are disregarding it as operational. Ridiculous, I know.
     
  15. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Member

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    To be fair - in the case of Ekdo 262 it was "operational testing" in the sense of tactical development...flying it against a fighting enemy to work out HOW to use its speed in combat...the 262 having been being "tested" as such in many configurations for quite some time!
     
  16. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    It's not a bad show, pretty much follows the basic history of Hitler and the Nazis with a few added anecdotes.
     
  17. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    The 262 was used as a fighter and brought down many many bombers despite only about 300 being "operational"....They were sent on operations to down enemy bombers, not testing or evaluation (although an ongoing reveiw was always in place - as is the case with all new fighters/units) When was the meteor ever sent on missions to down enemy fighters or bombers? If the answer is never then it was never an operational fighter...you can twist it how you like...but the majority of the world see it as i do...as the documentary indicates.
     
  18. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    And if we're being honest...both aircraft were really interceptors....plenty of grunt but inferior manouverablility compared to piston types...
     
  19. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Let's face it, if a war hadn't been going on, neither of those planes (as well as the P80) would have been certified for squadron service. They were just too immature re. engines and/or airframes.
     
  20. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Agreed.
    I would say that without a war the need wouldnt have been there...But Germany would have had its factories, engineers and all the special materials they needed...Matter of time for both. (Both aircraft were conceived prior to hostilities...)
     

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