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The consolidated Pearl Harbor mythology thread.

Discussion in 'Pearl Harbor' started by OpanaPointer, Oct 3, 2009.

  1. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Between us we seem to have pretty good grip on the conspiracy theories surrounding Pearl Harbor. So pooling our knowledge would seem logical.

    I have resources online:

    The PEARL HARBOR ATTACK HEARINGS

    The Myths of Pearl Harbor.

    Japanese Radio Denial and Deception and the Attack on Pearl Harbor.pdf (application/pdf Object)

    west_wind_clear.pdf (application/pdf Object) (Regarding the "winds" message.)

    CarrierChartE.jpg (JPEG Image, 1004x710 pixels) (Charts the course of the Kido Butai and the US carriers in the Pacific.)

    What ya got? :cool:
     
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  2. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    You might want to add this one, from the Autumn 2007 Naval War College Review, dealing with non-encounters with Soviet merchant vessels by the Kido Butai. Has some nice words about transmissions in the blind to warn them of the possibility.

    Rich
     

    Attached Files:

  3. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Consider it added!

    I will be updating my Mythology page as soon as I recover from the hangover I'm going to have tomorrow morning. :D

    http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/myths/Di...p Encounter the Pearl Harbor Strike Force.pdf
     
  4. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    FYI, I now have 35 of the 40 volumes of the Pearl Harbor Attack Hearings in PDF format. Currently uploading. Stay tuned for an index.

    (And I'll get the rest of the volumes done, but it will be early next year.)
     
  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I think the calculations on the possible radio intercept on the other thread should be worth a page and link. It comes up often enough and showing that even if it occured it would have produced no intelligence of value could be useful next time it comes up. Any one know what the angular resolution of WWII DF equipment was?
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    You might check SRH-149 for that info.SRH-149
     
  8. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Didn't find it there but an interesting article none the less.
    http://www.xs4all.nl/~aobauer/HFDF1998.pdf
    indicates occasionally errors were as much as 20 degrees but that was considered severe.
    Microwave Passive Direction Finding - Google Books
    has a chart on page 256 that suggest 5 degrees would be about as good as it was possible to get and probably not obtainable in this case. Indeed that's just signal to noise related error so from something as far away as we're talking it could be signficantly greater.
     
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  9. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    So a variance of 0 to 12 degrees might be reasonably typical? The Hitokappu-wan - Kure bearings arc would certainly fall within those limits.

    Nice finds, BTW.

    Rich
     
  10. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Actually given that we are looking at a signal that's had to bounce off the ionosphere at least once I would be very suprised if anyone one claim that the typical error was as low as 10 degrees. At those ranges and especially with the bounce the signal to noise ratio is hardly going to be optimum and there can also be error caused by the bounce. A number of other errors were discussed in the article although for the most part they were looking at ships to ship detections. For a single station even though 20 degrees is considered a severe error it might well have been doing pretty well for the time.
     
  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Did they ever solve the problem of the reciprocal bearing other than by triangulation?
     
  12. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    It is frequently stated that Kimmel should have been retired at his rank of Admiral, rather than the Rear Admiral rank. Firstly, retirement at the rank of Admiral is reserved for the most meritorious service, something Kimmel would struggle to claim considering the events on his watch.

    Second, in regard to his "guilt" in the events of Dec. 7th, it is said he was never given "his day in court". The fact of the matter is that he was offered a chance to clear his name.

    (Citation on this will follow as soon as I get the document online.)
    It seems obvious that he read the material presented in the Investigations and decided not to press for a court-martial. Smart man.
     
  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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  14. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    One point that needs clarification:

    I received an email sometime around 1995, asking for a copy of a seaman's testimony before the Navy Board. I scanned it in, and passed it along. The reply was somewhat startling.

    "My father says that this is nothing like what he really said. How often has the Hearings been opened and changed?"

    There seems to be an impression that the Hearings are locked in a box somewhere and you would be able to go to them, make alterations and so change the "official record" of the events. Reality is different, however. Imagine trying to change all the copies of Day of Infamy so that the Lurline actually had deck guns? You would have to track them all down and make "corrections" without the owner noticing.

    There were thousands of copies of the Hearings printed and either sold or distributed to Repository libraries around the country. Now it might be possible to change the ones in the libraries, but my copies were purchased by a gentleman the day they went on sale at the Chicago branch of the GPO. I'm the second owner of that set, and nobody has ever changed anything in them to my knowledge. (They'd be very lucky to locate them, leave alone tamper with them.)
     
  15. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I believe some antenna designs take care of it. Indeed sighting the antenna can take care of it pretty welll also. Would hardly have been much of a problme at Dutch harbor however. I think it's mentioned in at least one of the sources I listed.
     
  16. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    The reciprocal of Tokyo would be in the Bay of Alaska, or somewhere along the coast, yes?
     
  17. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    You can't really get an exact bearing from it but:
    Google Maps
    makes it look like it might run right down the Aleutian chain. Certainly into the bay then Alaska itself. It might be intersting to know just where the station was located. The airbase was on the north side of the island (at least the current one is) and thus not a good site for looking south. There is a weather station near the summit of one of the peaks which could have been station king.

    The link above only get's you to Google maps page. Here's one to Dutch Harbor
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...=Dutch+Harbor,+Aleutians+West,+Alaska&t=h&z=7

    Looks to me like the reciprical bearing is pretty much down the north side of the Aleutian chain.
     
  18. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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  19. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Calculated rhumb line bearing from Dutch Harbor to Tokyo is 244°11′12″ with a distance of 4,651 Km. Great circle varies from 266°06′08″ around to 226°22′39″, distance 4562 Km
     
  20. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    English, please? (Or at least American. ;))
     

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