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The German American Bund.

Discussion in 'Prelude to War & Poland 1939' started by Skipper, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    You find this interesting. Imagine their meeting at Madison Square garden with Swastikas and with 20.000 followers and they beating up those who protested against them....

    The German American Bund or German American Federation(German: Amerikadeutscher Bund, also Amerikadeutscher Volksbund) was an American Nazi organization established in the 1930s. Its main goal was to promote a favorable view of Nazi Germany.

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    German American Bund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



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  2. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    GRW likes this.
  3. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    Not a high point in US domestic politics.
     
  4. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    In the 1930s those fellows were in about every country: Mosley in the UK , the Croix de Feux in France etc... . The Bund members were luckily never enough to get to power, but their speeches were pretty scary and their organisations copied on the Nazis , including Jugend, camps , propaganda , meetings and all the "marketing" that went with Nazi propaganda. They also fraternised with the Klan and had connexions with prominent businessmen and politicians. It's pretty odd to see the Swastika displayed in Manhattan .
     
  5. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    As an interesting aside, the Bund didn't have the funds to rent the Garden on their own, and teamed up with the KKK to come up with the money, and to fill the auditorium. Then, when the meeting was over they needed a NYPD escort to get out of the area without getting beat up by angry spectators. America had a couple of pro-Nazi organizations, the only other one that springs to mind this morning is the Silver Shirts from the upper mid-west.
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    That depends on how you look at it. If you look at it as a system that allows for even an idiot to express their opinion then this is a pretty graphic demonstration of it. Note that the Communist party also was doing similar things. Having them out in the open saying things in public allows one to use thier own verbage against them as well.
     
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  7. Victor Gomez

    Victor Gomez Ace

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    A contemporary (low point of recent times), some one associated with Arizona politicians, LDS church, J.T. Ready who marched around Arizona enforcing "border law" was never restrained from that. Existed there until he took himself out not very long ago. J.T. Ready | Southern Poverty Law Center
     
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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  9. irons

    irons recruit

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    i always found it fascinsting that the us found it e that the `no jews` sign on park seats was awfulawful but they had no blacks on those same seats
     
  10. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Another picture : this shows the Bund members were also a bunch a beer drinkers. In fact The Bund attracted members by mixing politics with traditions, heritage and party. They had boot camps for the kids who thought it was fun to wear uniforms: Exactly like the Hitlerjugend did.

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    RACE - History - Nazism and World War II
     
  11. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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  12. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    He is an interesting person indeed. I've always wondered if he truly believed what was told to him about the so called superiority of the Luftwaffe . Was he pretenting or was he naive?
    He was right to have kept his award in my opinion. "It seems to me that the returning of decorations, which were given in times of peace and as a gesture of friendship, can have no constructive effect. If I were to return the German medal, it seems to me that it would be an unnecessary insult. Even if war develops between us, I can see no gain in indulging in a spitting contest before that war begins".
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    Charles Lindbergh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  13. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Haven't got a clue about the site I'm posting from, but reading up on Spanish Civil war, I came across a section on an oil company busting sanctions and its later involvement in ww2...It did not name the company but on searching it seem to be Texaco. Posted not to agrivagte anyone, just a good story.

    Corporate US and Hitler
     
  14. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    It reminds me of a famous businessman who suplied U.S oil to the Germans up to 1941. I forgot the man's name, but there has to be a thread about him too here. Also another interesting character was Henry Ford. He made vehicles both for the allies and the Axis and even asked for war compensations to the U.S. and France after the war because the allies had bombed his Germany and France based factories. What is not so well known is his celebrating the German victory over France at the Waldorf Astoria in N-Y , in June 1940.

    Henry Ford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  15. Buckskinz

    Buckskinz Member

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    Prior to our (United States) entering WW2, why shouldn't we be trading with Germany? There was more than Henry Ford celebrating Germany's victory. Many Americans are of German descent and in that time frame less integrated than they are now. What is it that makes you think we should have automatically been on the UK's side at that time in history? The majority of Americans were against entry into any European war again.
     
  16. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Maybe so Bukskinz, but texaco guy traded during ww2 as well as prior to ww2. I think you'll find the majority in the UK were against entering any European war in 1939 too. Damned when we don't damned when we did.
     
  17. Buckskinz

    Buckskinz Member

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    I don't know all the details of the gent in question, but I will say Texaco is a huge company, even back then. It's possible deals were done in his name after our entry. If it was the CEO's doing then he is nothing less than a traitor. We of course do not have the big picture. Prior to our entry into the war we were shipping all kinds of logistics to the UK. The UK entered WW2 like it or not, because they were obligated to do so by treaty with Poland. The way the Poles were treated post WW2 is nothing short of disgraceful, but that's another thread.
     
  18. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    I have posted this before, I simply cannot find it using search or even advanced search for some reason. Probably forgot the real title or something. Anyway, here is a redux for the forums perusal.

    Quite a bit of the financing for Hitler and the Nazis came from affiliates or subsidiaries of many U.S. citizens and firms, Henry Ford’s help began in the twenties, and were simply included in with payments from American I.G. (Farben) and General Electric which started as early as 1933. The Standard Oil (New Jersey), American I.G. (Farben) and I.T.T. subsidiary payments through Heinrich Himmler and Swiss and Swedish banks, and continued up to 1944. Walter Teagle, a close Roosevelt associate and backer, as well as an NRA administrator; along with banker Paul Warburg (his brother Max Warburg was on the board of I.G. Farben in Germany), and Edsel Ford were the directors of the American I.G. (Farben) board.

    J.P. Morgan Bank, Guaranty Trust, Chase Manhattan Bank, at least three Wall Street houses (Dillon, Read; Harris, Forbes; and, National City Company for sure), Standard Oil (New Jersey), Du Pont, Dow Chemical, General Motors, Ford Motors, and General Electric (A.E.G.) of the United States helped or profited in some manner. G.E. (A.E.G) rounded out its support by technical cooperation with Krupp, which seems to have been aimed at restricting the U.S. development of tungsten carbide. I.T.T. held a 28 percent interest in Focke-Wolfe aircraft, American Ford owned French Ford and Ford Werke of Belgium and profited from supplying the German Wehrmacht with cars and trucks through out the war.

    Standard Oil's most egregious role (beyond profiteering), was with technical aid to Nazi development of synthetic rubber and synthetic gasoline through a U.S. research company under the management and control of Standard Oil. Then the Ethyl Gasoline Company, jointly owned by Standard Oil and General Motors, was instrumental in supplying vital tetra-ethyl lead assistance to Nazi Germany with the clear knowledge that the tetra-ethyl lead was for Nazi military purposes. I also believe that the dividends to both GM (from Opel) and Ford from their European subsidiaries continued all through the war years too, through the Swiss and the Swedes. That may have been justified as "weakening" the Germany economy and strengthening our own at the same time however. Everybody it seems took advantage of the situation and had fingers in the pie.

    The most questionable, it would seem to me, is Henry Ford Sr. sending Adolf Hitler a personal monetary "birthday gift" every April 20th through 1944. 1938 was the year he was awarded that medal by Der Fuehrer, and Henry sent something like 10,000, or 20,000 Reichmarks to Hitler through Swiss or Swedish banks every year. Even during the war years, he managed to continue the practice.

    The U.S. Ambassador in Germany, William Dodd, wrote FDR from Berlin on October 19, 1936 (three years after Hitler came to power), concerning American industrialists and their aid to the Nazis: "Much as I believe in peace as our best policy, I cannot avoid the fears which Wilson emphasized more than once in conversations with me, August 15, 1915 and later: the breakdown of democracy in all Europe will be a disaster to the people. But what can you do? At the present moment more than a hundred American corporations have subsidiaries here or cooperative understandings. The DuPonts have three allies in Germany that are aiding in the armament business. Their chief ally is the I. G. Farben Company, a part of the Government which gives 200,000 marks a year to one propaganda organization operating on American opinion. Standard Oil Company (New Jersey sub-company) sent $2,000,000 here in December 1933 and has made $500,000 a year helping Germans make Ersatz gas for war purposes; but Standard Oil cannot take any of its earnings out of the country except in goods. They do little of this, report their earnings at home, but do not explain the facts. The International Harvester Company president told me their business here, in Germany rose 33% a year (arms manufacture, I believe), but they could take nothing out. Even our airplanes people have secret arrangement with Krupps. General Motor Company and Ford do enormous businesses [sic] here through their subsidiaries and take no profits out. I mention these facts because they complicate things and add to war dangers. (Edgar B. Nixon, ed., Franklin D. Roosevelt and Foreign Affairs, Volume III: September 1935-January 1937, [Cambridge: Belknap Press, 1969], p. 456.)

    Second, a quote from the diary of the same U.S. Ambassador in Germany… "Our Commercial Attache brought Dr. Engelbrecht, chairman of the Vacuum Oil Company in Hamburg, to see me. Engelbrecht repeated what he had said a year ago: ‘The Standard Oil Company, the parent company of the Vacuum, has spent 10,000,000 marks in Germany trying to find oil resources and building a great refinery near the Hamburg harbor.’ Engelbrecht is still boring wells and finding a good deal of crude oil in the Hanover region, but he had no hope of great deposits. He hopes Dr. Schacht will subsidize his company as he does some German companies that have found no crude oil. The Vacuum spends all its earnings here, employs 1,000 men and never sends any of its money home. I could give him no encouragement. (Ambassador Dodd's Diary, 1933-1938, [New York: Harcourt Brace and Company, 1941], p. 303.)



    I.T.T. held a 28 percent interest in Focke-Wolfe aircraft, American Ford owned French Ford and Ford Werke of Belgium and profited from supplying the German Wehrmacht with cars and trucks through out the war. Standard Oil's most egregious role (beyond profiteering), was with technical aid to Nazi development of synthetic rubber and synthetic gasoline through a U.S. research company under the management and control of Standard Oil. Then the Ethyl Gasoline Company (jointly owned by Standard Oil and General Motors), was instrumental in supplying vital tetra-ethyl lead assistance to Nazi Germany with the clear knowledge that the tetra-ethyl lead was for Nazi military purposes. I also believe that the dividends to both GM (from Opel) and Ford from their European subsidiaries continued all through the war years too, through the Swiss and the Swedes. That may have been justified as "weakening" the Germany economy and strengthening our own at the same time however. Everybody it seems took advantage of the situation and had fingers in the pie.

    But, even in the light of that stuff one must remember that the “business of America, is business”, (Calvin Coolidge). These American companies, financial houses, and business machine interests did business with the Nazis (some even during the war years); J.P. Morgan Bank, Guaranty Trust, Chase Manhattan Bank, at least three Wall Street houses (Dillon, Read; Harris, Forbes; and, National City Company for sure), Standard Oil (New Jersey), Du Pont, Dow Chemical, IBM, General Motors, Ford Motors, and General Electric (A.E.G.) of the United States helped or profited in some manner. General Electric (A.E.G) rounded out its support by technical cooperation with Krupp, which seems to have been aimed at restricting the U.S. development of tungsten carbide.

    Before the “crash” in 1929, trucks (Ford-AA), and cars (Ford-A) were being built in Nizhny Novgorod from parts shipped from the USA. In parallel to that assembly from US parts, a new automobile plant and foundry began to sprout up in Nizhny Novgorod (after 1932 Gorky). The name GAZ stands for Gorky Automobile Zavod (Plant). Henry Ford himself oversaw and aided in the construction of the GAZ plant which produced the GAZ-AA truck, a total copy of his own AA Ford truck (right down to the little blue oval on the radiator, and Spenserian script). This is the rugged 1.5 ton capacity, single drive axle truck of Soviet production all through WW2. The larger ZIS-5 was also an American design, the ZIS truck factory was constructed by the Autocar people, and the ZIS-5 truck was produced under license with American plans, tools and dies all through the thirties and forties. Neither of those models compared in any way with the 2.5 ton capacity, 6X6 Studebaker and REO trucks imported under Lend-Lease, both as assembled and un-assembled units. Another interesting story is the one concerning the Packard car company (at FDR’s insistence) sending Stalin and the Soviet a complete set of tools and dies for the production of their Limousine, which is why the ZIL of those years so closely resembles the contemporary Packards. Willys did much the same in the thirties, and today one of the Soviet produced, Willys (Americar) 442’s is worth some serious change to collectors.

    American manufacturers are always looking for a way to “make a buck”. The Harley-Davidson company sort of “jump-started” the Japanese motorcycle industry (how could they foresee their competition?), by first shipping parts for their single cylinder AA, and BA motorcycles for assembly in Japan after the earthquake of 1927. Motorcycles were the only powered machines that could get around with the entirely destroyed “infra-structure”. Then, after the stock market crash in ’29, in another interesting move they sold the license to build, the plans, and tool and dies for the 750cc (45ci) flathead to the Japanese Pharmaceutical Company, Sankyo (spelling ?) and they produced Harleys well into the fifties and sold them under the name “Rikuo” (Road King) using both the 750 and 1200 V-twin engines. During the Second World War, American troops were amazed to find what they believed were abandoned Harleys all over the place in standard two wheelers, sidecar and servicar styles. Talk about shooting yourself in the “corporate” foot!

    (Most is from; "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler", by Professor Antony C. Sutton, and Joseph Borkin's book; “The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben” (Unless otherwise noted.)
     
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  19. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    I'd call him a traitor.But I wouldn't say he was alone. His name is in my original link. Not that I'm bothered. He's one of your not mine. We all had traitors. Clints post points out quite a few. As for Poland. Would you have the UK go to war with the Russians in 45? Apart from words I didn't see the USA rushing to their aid. FDR and Truman were aware of all patcs, dealings and FDR was quite happy with his Uncle Joe through the war. Warnings were not heeded. I'd gladly listen to any evidence you have purporting to USA stepping in to save Poland from becoming a vassal state...Which battles were fought exacty? What were the casualty lists? I think I missed those battles.
     
  20. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Ok, lads back to the Bund, this is getting way off topic .
     

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