Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by KodiakBeer, Jan 17, 2013.
They charge extra for the historical value : )
It depends on who is selling it. A lot of the gun show fellows don't know what value the ammo has, and price it like the modern rounds found at the gun store. On the other hand, some of the 'historic memorobillia' gang nails outrageous prices on their WWII ammo (I recently saw some 8mm Mauser for $5 bucks a round!). Most of these were bought after the war because it was sold off for next-to-nothing, and many of these massive stocks still haven't run out completely. British/Canadian marked WWII-vintage .303 is still relatively easy to find up here.
Right now 1950s-era Soviet surplus is very popular, and is dirt cheap. At some point it'll have collector value as well.
And Biak, agreed, there is no logical reason for this ammo rush. Its almost a reaction and happens whenever new regulations are on the table or rumours are going around. Something like this happened back in 2008 as well, and its happened several times here in Canada (usually around election time). Anyway, at least its good for the economy -- you can't say Obama isn't at least creating some jobs
Nice answer Mr Patton...learn something (interesting) everyday. No logical reason for the rush?...Hmmm...i think you are correct...we (as do many places) have the same happening when the words "Cyclone watch" is whispered...the shelves become empty (the grog sellers are delerious with joy)...no logical reason, but human nature (whoever said THAT was logical : )
No, you can still get kegs, I bought two for the going away to Afghanistan party, but wanted a wider selection of brands. You have to get your kegs from a distributer and they have a record. The law is apparently aimed at the big box stores where you could just walk in and buy whatever quantity you had the money to pay for and there would be no record of who bought it. I normally don't buy my beer in quantities that would exceed the 20 gallon limit so I'd never run across it before.
I'm not too sure about this all blowing over. The dems control the senate and there are enough rino's in the house to push through all kinds of restrictions. Certainly, we'll have another ban on large magazines coming along. And I wouldn't rule out controls and taxes on ammo either.
In the meantime, does anybody know a good source for cheap .223 slugs?
I certainly hope that ammo, gun, and peripherals prices come back down after the madness and furor subside. They did in 2008, when people realized that there wasn't going to be pogroms and task forces breaking down your doors to collect anything from Nerf-level and up. Then again, after Katrina, gas prices soared due to "damage" to several refineries in the Gulf. Those refineries were back online in a short time....and gas prices are still high. Why? Because EVERYBODY drives a vehicle. Vehicles require fuel of some sort. So gas companies know that people HAVE to pay the prices. Even with the refineries closed, the oil and gas companies were still posting profits for the year. Its all about supply and demand...the companies can demand any price because they control the supply. The thing with ammo and guns, though, is that once everyone has hoarded what they think they need, the demand will go down, so sales will go down...and then prices will slowly follow as manufacturers drop their prices to entice people to start buying again.
At least, that's how I see it at 6am with no coffee.
Just so you know.....reloading supplies are expensive and reloading is no bargain....just gives you an ability to carefully craft your rounds which makes a difference on the range. The storage of ammo for years can be successful in that they will fire when you pull the trigger but the real advantage will be with the shooter who has the freshest powder which will perform far more consistently than a batch of old powder. I have seen some sell their weapons as "inaccurate" while shooting antique ammo. The next buyer using fresh ammo found no problems with the gun. If that reloader tells you he has a keg of powder he bought in 1960 and is still using it......well buy some fresh ammo and shoot against him because at those long shots it is going to land all over the place. Certain powders are better than others but they will all degrade with time.
I bought gasoline a few days ago at 2.86 a gallon for regular so sometimes that endless demand for the valuable liquid does fall off but it doesn't usually last very long. I went to the grocery store and they sold out all the small bags of rice with a sale.......I had to buy a very large bag.....few people realize the favorite for rice eaters is often the Texas long grain which is not going to be grown as abundantly for a while until drought recovery in Texas is more complete in the irrigation lakes. I love Cajun style rice related foods so eventually this could be a blow to my eating habits.So now I have bought something in quantity.....had no choice.....it was grains of rice. Now before and after I go to the range.....I will also have some Gumbo to keep me warm and re-warmed when I get back. May have to cut back from thousands of rounds to hundreds....we suffer so.... here in the United States.
I've been reloading for 25 years, but haven't bothered with .223 because it has been cheap. Reloading is much cheaper for most rounds, if you're smart about the components you choose. I shoot a lot of steel plate with 9mm and .45acp and using the inexpensive Berry's plated bullets I can knock out rounds for less than half the price of store rounds. Some of the newer powders let you use half or 2/3rds the volume of powder for the same velocity, so a can of powder goes a long, long way. Titegroup is a good pistol powder that stretches your money.
With rifles (in normal times) you can find very cheap "pulled" military 762x51mm NATO slugs that also serve well in 30.06 rifles like the Garand. This was also true about .223 slugs. The US has gone to a newer style bullet, so there are hundreds of millions of the older style SS109 slugs out there, or were, because suddenly these aren't appearing on the civilian market any more.
for a little comedy, and one of the main reasons that sensible humans who do own firearms are so frustrated with those who claim every American should be able to own and shoot anything they wish.
Gun FAILS: Second Amendment Rights Gone Wrong In Honor Of 'Gun Appreciation Day' (VIDEO)
There are a number of TV shows that feature nothing but people doing idiotic things with skateboards, cars, skis, appliances - whatever. Is that a reason to ban skateboards, cars, skis, appliances...? Are appliances protected under the Bill of Rights? How about guns? I would have died fifteen years ago if a friend with a gun hadn't saved my life, so nobody is going to convince me that people shouldn't own guns.
In 1979 I took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I take that oath seriously.
I took the same oath in 1977 and take it equally seriously.
I own guns, probably have since I was six if my Dad's .22 Western Field counts. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything, just laughing at those who feel they should own a gun and really don't know a thing about them. I remember when the NRA was all about gun safety, and teaching kids how to handle their firearms with respect. I went to the classes when I was a kid so I could qualify for the early program to get my first deer licence. Now the NRA is the spokesman for gun makers, not gun users. The greater part of their funding comes from firearms manufacturing groups, they don't want the market slowed in any fashion. It is follow the money, who makes the bucks.
And by the way nobody is talking about banning anything really, unless you count the military style semi-automatics, which have no place in civilian life, or the huge magazines, and there is no justifiable reason for any hunter or sportsman to have one or more of those. It is just a "macho" thing, and it is fun to blast off large groups of bullets. Done it with both an old Thompson M1A1 and an M-3 grease gun that were donated to the Sheriff's Dept. in my home county by Army Surplus or something. My buddy Pete told me if I'd buy the .45s he'd sneak them out of the locker and we'd go shoot 'em up. We ran about 500 rounds through those two a thirty round bunches, lots of fun, no real purpose.
By "huge" I guess you mean "standard" magazines? The 2nd Amendment doesn't have anything to do with hunting or sport. It's in place to protect military arms and those normally have 20 or 30 round mags.
In a strict constructionist sense, you could ban deer rifles and duck guns and revolvers since they aren't military (militia) type weapons, and thus not protected under the 2nd Amendment. Or, at least you could make a pretty good legal argument along those lines.
Any mag over ten rounds is just "showing off", if you need more than ten rounds for target or hunting you are neither a hunter nor a target expert. You would have loved the old Militia Laws that required every male over 18 to keep and maintain a musket or rifle in good working order with flints, ammo, and accessories. It was repealed in 1903 when the terrible performance of the various state militias in Cuba during the Spanish American War, that was when the National Guard came into being and the government started arming the "militia" with reliable, standardized weapons.
The Militia Act of 1792, Passed May 8, 1792, providing federal standards for the organization of the Militia.
An ACT more effectually to provide for the National Defence, by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States.
I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.
The Militia Act of 1792
This sort of remained in force with minor adjustments until the turn of the twentieth century when the Militia Act of 1903 was passed in response to the very poor showing of state militias during the Spanish American War, when the National Guard was established.
The above rifle is a National Match M1A. It is an accurized version of the military M-14 service rifle. It has a 20 round box magazine and is used in 1000 yard iron sights shooting matches. More than 10 rounds, not showing off and the people that fire these in competition are definately target experts.
The AR-15 is also used in National Match competition, normally with the 30 round magazine, and once again these people are real, serious, expert shooters.
The rifles in question are NOT automatic weapons as the two you mentioned. They are semi-automatic, one trigger pull, one round downrange. You can fire as quickly as you can pull the trigger, but unlike your description of "blast off large groups of bullets" they are not select fire or automatic weapons.
'85, '86, 91, '92, '93, '97, '11, '13........I think about it every morning when I lace up my boots and go to work
The best argument that I have heard is, There should be 3 requirements for owning fire arms and if you have 2 of the 3 you can have one: Children, Job, Mortgage
AGAIN, the Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting.
Nor does it protect certain types of weapons, and their magazine sizes. Justice Antonin Scalia suggested the Second Amendment shouldn't stop the U.S. from barring certain weapons. Justice A.Scalia (not one of my favorites), a strict interpreter of the Constitution, said there's an "important limitation" on the right to bear arms.
"We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of 'dangerous and unusual weapons',"
I'm about done arguing this subject. My mind and those that support an unrestricted 2nd Ammendment will not be changed. Those that favor restrictions are arguing from what they consider a morally just and reasonable position. Their minds won't be changed either. I do not think it is worth getting crossways with people I respect, such as Clint, over supposition about what may or may not occur.
That being said, I will make my position perfectly clear. If so called assult weapons are banned and I feel I need another one, I will buy it on the black market. If that makes me a criminal in the eyes of the government, so be it. I've made it 55 years with a spotless criminal record, if that needs to change, so be it. If they ban ammunition or magazines, I will buy them on the black market as well. If they order registration, I will not comply. Again, if that makes me an outlaw, so be it. If they decide to forcefully confiscate my weapons, force will be answered with force, and I am better trained than most of them. I will not seek confrontation, but neither will I back away from it. I do not think it will come to that because I believe my state legislature will follow the example of our next door neighbor, Tennessee and pass laws or resolutions invalidating new Federal restrictions. The proposed Tennessee Legislation HB0042 states:
At least twelve other states have similar legislation pending or in place.
Where is the outcry for the major cause of unnatural deaths in America ? Pharmaceuticals
LEGAL drugs kill 6200% more citizens than firearms according to this study from 2000.
The facts were taken from the JAMA Vol 284 No 4 July 24, 2000....
Hey, Mr. Obama: Prescription drugs kill 6200% more Americans than homicidal shootings
I'm not talking about heroin, cocaine, or other street drugs. Legal Opiates only !
But we all know how congress is doing a great job controlling illegal street drugs....
Where's the public outrage or the demand for special legislation for this TRUE epidemic, killing tens of thousands every year.