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The great ammo shortage of 2013

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by KodiakBeer, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I would think the ownership number is probably much higher.

    I am aware of many acquaintances that have weapons in their homes of which there is no governmental record and they are not unique in that regard.

    I don't think outsiders truly understand the degree of multi-weapon ownership in the rural & suburban South. It would not be uncommon for large numbers of households to be able to adequately arm every member of their immediate family with a sidearm and a rifle or shotgun and still have spare weapons left over. I have a lot of friends and family that certainly could.
     
  2. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    It is a well established custom that we tax those who use a service or product to pay for the upkeep of such things (or to clean up behind them) such as Toll roads, Airports, Gasoline, Alcohol, Tobacco, Hunting licenses, Automobiles etc.

    edit, Jeff I just saw you post and agree. I have been hearing the figure of 300 million in the press, but this is a contentious topic as it is, so I decide to play nice.

    As this is off topic for ammo shortages, perhaps it need to be split off?

     
  3. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    I was being generous, I think the actual numbers are closer to 70 or 80 percent of the handguns are legally purchased/ posessed by the person.

    That's when the person is on probation or has comitted one of the specified misdemeanors in that section. All of those micdemeanors in there deal with resisting public officers, misdomeanor assaults / battery and other non violent firearm violations.
    29800 PC was the "meat" wich defines who may not posess firearms.


    Thats right there is the rub isn't it? Here in California in order to buy a rifle you have to show proof of attending, at minimum, a certified "Hunter's Safety Course". To buy a hangun all you have to do is take a "Handgun Safety Test" administered by the gunshop at the the time you pay for the handgun.

    Check your PM's
     
  4. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    The reality is different. Felons can not legally own guns and as you see below, most murderers are felons.

    GunCite: Gun Control - Gun Homicides
     
  5. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Biak,
    Christian Philip Oberender was a killer and is still obviously mentally ill. Why was he ever let out? Why not have the state sue the psychologist that certified him as being safe to let back out in society for malpractice and use that money to fund solutions to the problem? Another thing that all the recent shootings have in common is mental illness that was not properly dealt with. The government and more government regulations are not the answer, the article you posted points this out by pointing out failures by the state government in this case.
    The same thing with the firefighter ambush in New York by William Spengler, he beat his 92 year old grandmother to death with a hammer back in 1980. Why was he ever let out of jail? Who screened him and determined he was fit to return to society?

    Belasar wrote:

    Here you have the whole, letting the government "camel" get its nose in the tent, thing. OK, the government has and is constantly proposing taxes to modify behavior. They used the cigarette tax to try and reduce smoking. There are proposed soft drink taxes to help reduce consumption and reduce obesity. Who's to say the government does require a $10.00 yearly registration tax in order to own a gun. You register your gun and pay your tax. Next year they decide there are too many guns and raise the tax to $500. each. Then $1000. If you've registered your gun you then have two options, pay the tax or surrender your firearm. What if you fail to pay the tax? What will they do kick down your door and take it? Or refuse to pay it on principle, then go to jail and have your gun(s) seized? What if you've never been a criminal or been diagnosed with a mental illness? That's OK punish the innocent.
    Every time I've purchased a firearm since the background check process came into being, including when I bought an '03 Springfield at a gunshow I have had to have a Federal background check. Each time I have paid a fee to have this done from $25.00 and up. I have no problem with that, it is part of the cost of buying a gun. Is it my fault that every level of government from the city/county, to the state, to various Federal agencies fail to keep it properly supplied with data. I did my part and paid my fee. It seems to be a failure of the government to me, if they can't use the tools they currently have in place, is it the individuals fault, that is trying to do everything right?

    Kodiak Bear wrote:
    What this tells me is that the politicians are not serious about solving the problem, they want to do something symbolic to placate the public. If they can increase their ability to control the populace if the need arises, so much the better.
     
  6. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    KB- You can not exclude victims of Domestic Violence wich most of those statistics do.
     
  7. rprice

    rprice Member

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    USMCPrice wrote:
    What they are doing is cynically exploiting a tragedy to divert attention away from other issues.
     
  8. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    They are murder statistics, so of course they include all murders regardless of domestic arrangements. Furthermore, domestic violence is the only non-felony criminal charge that prohibits purchase or possession of a firearm.
     
  9. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    There may be something to that. With the economy in the gutter and spending increasing the deficit every day, why not exploit this to keep the media focused on other things.
     
  10. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    There are more misdomeanors that prohibit lawful purchse and posession in California.....there are even more that prohibit purchase and posession for specified amounts of time 5-10 years.
    I call it "Legislated Responsibility".

    Dig deeper...I was looking through there last night and they did not include Domestic Violence, it's a different stat and if you look at the top of your "STAT" you'll see that it is for "Murderers who had prior crimanal records"
     
  11. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    I must disagree. Such a radical increase seems difficult to credit considering the power of the Gun lobby. Try as I might I cannot see an instance where such an increase has taken place in the examples you cite. The advantage of a yearly registration fee, other than providing funds that could go to various aspects of Law Enforcement, would be to firm up the soft market in gun sales where background checks do not take place.
     
  12. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    Exactly my point. How many times have parole boards, judges or prosecutors let off or offered reduced sentences for criminals who return to their previous activities? Judges & Parole Boards should be held accountable for any 'transgressions' their actions allow to happen. Just the way they want bartenders or Gun Manufacturers to be held accountable.
    As for cost of incarceration; the cost would drop dramatically if we build prisons as Prisons. No air conditioning; no fully stocked Law Library, no exercise yard; single cells with room for a cot, sink, toilet. Forget the PC crap. You choose breaking the Law the rest of us abide by you lose your privileges previously known as Your Rights.
    Treat those who have been convicted of crimes as they deserve and incarcerate appropriately. Violent crimes beget harsh sentences.
     
  13. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I'm sure that's true, but the mere fact that a law exists doesn't prevent a gangbanger from getting a gun and killing people. What does prevent that is the incarceration of such people, for at least the length of that incarceration.

    The stats are for murders. They don't separate spousal murders from other murders.

    However, those convicted of domestic violence are prohibited from buying or possessing firearms. The problem is that the feds won't prosecute their own laws.
     
  14. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    The Sci Fi writers (as usual) have seen this situation and speculated how it would be treated in the future...Usually it takes the form of being a "citizen"...No one is born a citizen, one earns the right...and if a crime is committed, the person loses their citizenship....and ALL rights therein.
     
  15. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    It would also create an entirely new class of criminals because tens of millions of gun owners would refuse to register their firearms. So, you'd need an awful lot more money to start kicking in doors across the country and shooting otherwise legal gun owners.
     
  16. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    There is no doubt that incarceration has gotten soft, but, locking up people and throwing away the key is not the answer; neither is forcing prisoners to live in squalor. The prisons in this country have become an extension of the welfare system and do absbsolutely nothing to deter or prevent crime.

    So, I guess we need to figure something else out.
     
    CAC likes this.
  17. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    Soft? Ya think. I realize for the common man it sounds like hell but the majority who use the revolving door have lost the fear prisons are meant to instill. I'm not saying "throw away the key" just lose it for a time. In some cases a very long time. A one person cell with a warm cot and 'facilities' and three 'squares a day' are a long way from what many of the homeless have. So squalor doesn't come into play here.
     
  18. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    None of this has anything to do with the topic, which was the shortage of ammo in 2013. Prisons, gun control, and the divergent views of our members have little to do with the original post. Either give reasons for the shortage of ammo, or risk this thread being closed and dumped.
     
  19. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    Duly noted, my bad
     
  20. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Don't say my bad anymore brother Biak. That's so 90s you know. Just say "I stepped on my crank".
     

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