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The Italian Navy during World War II

Discussion in 'Naval War in the Mediterrean, Malta & Crete' started by JCFalkenbergIII, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    Those were all italian victories classifiable like naval battles (so excluding the tens of single successful attacks previously listed). The mid june was the operation Vigorous.
     
  2. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    One of the rules of the forum is to leave out personal allusions, to avoid other words. Do yourself a favour and avoid those "Please if you want to re write the history to belittle everything that wasn't british,..." and provide facts to back up your arguments. In Americanese that is the equivalent of "having a chip on your shoulder". Maybe that would help your position.
     
  3. mikebatzel

    mikebatzel Dreadnaught

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    I didn't claim that the First battle of Sirte was a British victory. nor did I claim that Operation Pedestal was a Italian loss. What I said was
    I have never tried to rewrite history, nor will I. I have not made any claims which cannot be backed by fact, and have even provided links to information. your previous statement is laughable.
    You are correct in that there is no more need to discuss this topic with you. I am interested in the navies of all countries during the war, and will revert to discussing historical occurences with those who share my interest. Untill you read a book or two, goodbye
     
  4. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    Ok, so I understand that at the same time if people tell me something similar, they will have also the red flame.
     
  5. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    These are the links:

    www.comandosupremo.com

    www.regiamarina.net (if you understand the italian, then go to storia/battaglie navali)

    Good bye
     
  6. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    No, but if they persist in making baseless claims such as the Matilda being a US product as you did, then they will.;)
     
  7. mikebatzel

    mikebatzel Dreadnaught

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    From your source of information www.comandosupremo.com





    Why is the second battle of Sirte considered a Tactical victory for Britain? they successfully protected the convoy from utter destruction. Strategically Italy turned back the convoy, but the battle goes to Britain. And you say I rewrite History. You have manipulated the information to support an agenda. As I said before Goodbye. I will not discuss this with you any further
     
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  8. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    The british battleships were damaged and retreated, it is an italian victory even if not a triumph. Read also the site of Regia Marina.
     
  9. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    The only difference is that I have had the red flame and some "suggestion" because I am not british minded. ;)
     
  10. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I gave you that red flame and for the reason I stated. I don't need to be told under what conditions I gave it.
     
  11. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    Second Sirte was a victory for the British. Their intention was to resupply Malta by convoy. Their forces consisted of the three available light cruisers of the Dido class (and these are very light cruisers) along with ten destroyers. The convoy itself consisted of just four freighers.

    The Italian navy intercepted this convoy with the battleship Littorio, two heavy and one light cruiser along with eight destroyers; a far superior force. The Italians, for whatever reason, decided to engage the British with long range gunnery. The British responded by laying smoke frustrating this plan.

    The British then made an aggressive torpedo attack against the Italian fleet forcing them onto the defensive. The three British cruisers present used their gunfire to support the attack from a range of about 13,000 yards.

    The Italians scored several hits on the destroyers including three 15" (one each) on three of them. The British launched an ineffective torpedo attack following which the Italians withdrew. The only British cruiser hit was Cleopatra. She suffered a single 6" hit from Littorio's secondary battery. This shell hit the compass platform about two feet above the deck causing very minor damage.

    The Luftwaffe attacked the convoy on several occasions thereafter sinking two of the merchant ships. The other two made Malta where they were subsequently sunk in harbor by air attack after partially unloading.

    The unaggressive and lethargic performance of such an overwhelming Italian naval force cannot be glossed over. The Italians in daylight had sufficent forces and firepower present that they should have easily overcome the British forces present. But, the British acted far more aggressively and won the day even if the damage to both sides was relatively minimal.
     
  12. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    Considering that the italian navy hadn't the radar, problem that caused disasters like Taranto when the battleships didn't see the british airforce in time, considering also that in Italy there were the anti fascists who transmitted to Alexandria and to London the informations that permitted to the british to intercept the italian fleets, considering that the italians had lacks of supplies like the fuel differently from the british who were supported in every possible way from the allies, I can list the italian winning battles (excluding the single ones one to one previously listed), fought in the Mediterranean sea:

    - FIRST BATTLE OF SIRTE
    - SECOND BATTLE OF SIRTE
    - MID JUNE (Operation Vigorous)
    - MID AUGUST

    Sources:

    www.regiamarina.net

    www.comandosupremo.com

    Anyway , everyone can believe what he wants..
     
  13. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    This is ridiculous, you have already reached the stage of repeating yourself.
     
  14. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    Repeated posts for repeated deluded, it's not my fault.
     
  15. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    At Second Sirte radar made absolutely no difference. First, most of the British ships had not been fitted with sets yet and those that did have radar, like the three light cruisers only had basic air and surface warning / search sets that were completely unsuited to fire control applications. The most typical set was either a Type 79 or 279. All were in the metric wavelength and so inaccurate that they could not be even used for ranging.

    Also, one should note that the Italians did develop and deploy radar of their own. The set deployed operationally was the EC 3 Gufo radar. It worked on a 70cm wavelenght and was roughly comparable in accuracy to the earlier German Seetakt radar. The Littorio was fitted with one such set using seperate transmit and receive horns by late 1941 so actually had radar on board at Second Sirte and, had a set equal to or better than any British ones present.
    Now, whether the Italians actually made use of this equipment or not cannot be determined by me but, it was present.
     
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  16. mikebatzel

    mikebatzel Dreadnaught

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    No. You are believing what you want. Now that I have had time to read through both sites you have provided, niether of them make claims that Italy won either battle of Sirte. Try reading a book on the subject. Maybe then you might actually learn something.
     
  17. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    They were italian victories, even if they weren't disasters for the british.

    Read the sites I have posted.
     
  18. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. THE_TRUTH_HURTS

    THE_TRUTH_HURTS Member

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    Is this the respect? Mah..
     
  20. Otto

    Otto Spambot Nemesis Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    It seems you are quite selective with the term respect. It only applies when people direct comment to you?

    Listen, you honestly need to calm down. If you have nothing to add to a discussion, rehashing the same old stuff is useless. And don't put it down to a "western" view, perche Io sono Italiano. I know that the Italians got a bad reputation in WWII, and a some of it is exaggeration, but be objective.
     

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