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The Lebensraum Lie - Theory

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by ZeJanIt, Aug 12, 2016.

  1. OhneGewehr

    OhneGewehr New Member

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    In modern Germany really no one wants to change frontiers, there are far more supporters for a smaller Germany or two Germanys, whatever you like. The reunification was costly and everyone regarded himself as a victim. In Western Germany we had to pay and the infrastructure now is often older compared to the East and in Eastern Germany they had even more problems and a complete change of almost everything.

    Germany today consists of 16 federal states and the only addition which would be accepted by the majority of people would be Mallorca.
    This is a joke for sure, Mallorca is the most popular holiday location for Germans.
     
  2. ZeJanIt

    ZeJanIt Member

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    ARE YOU SERIOUS???
    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania or the more modern term https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
    you telling me Hitler would not have fit perfectly within this diagnosis? Even as the Third Reich fell around him, he stood moving fake divisions and give orders to fake armies??? and much more of this applies to him...

    And he was a Genius... people just hate him so much they don't want to "bestow" the title on him. Well, I hate him and ever nazi as well, but the fact was he was one. He took complete control over a nation and almost the world. ya... idiots don't do that.....then drug abuse brought it all down... if he hadn't been addicted to drugs and listened to the good generals that he did have we might all be speaking German today with a picture of him on our wall.

    At the very least we'd have a much different world today.. with the USA being much further down the list of super powers.
     
  3. ZeJanIt

    ZeJanIt Member

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    I disagree. I think German have collapsed and disappeared almost completely, before some other party took over and rebuilt.. no one would have came to the rescue like we (America) did after ww2.n
     
  4. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    This does not prove that he was a megalomaniac.
     
  5. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    This is nonsense ,the old lies from the "good generals" who blamed Hitler for the defeat,while concealing that they mostly agreed with Hitler .

    The truth is that he made mistakes (as the generals) but that the mistakes he made did not prevent Germany from winning the war, neither did they cause the defeat of Germany .

    An other one ruling Germany would have resulted in the same outcome : unconditional surrender of Germany .

    Besides, it is very questionable that he was addicted to drugs, and the medecine he took had no influence on his decisions .
     
  6. steverodgers801

    steverodgers801 Member

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    Actually Hitler was a drug user, we just don't know what they were. He received numerous injections daily
    from his doctor. He want that smart, he had a decent intuition, but as he was quite lazy he didn't take the time to actually learn things, just memorize stats.
     
  7. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Another one ruling Germany? Really, you have a crystal ball?

    Another authoritarian ruler may have stopped at retrieving what they lost (Sudetanland, Rhineland, East Prussia, the corridor, etc) I doubt any other, unless that ruler was of the NS persuasion or other party body bent on antisemitic beliefs.

    Only a ruler who decided to ignore history, as Hitler did, would invade the SU and underestimate their rival.
     
  8. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    I think Hitler became detached from reality when his attack on the Soviet Union faltered. In the 20s and 30s, when Mein Kampf was his guideline, he just reiterated what most Germans were thinking. Blaming the economic problems on socialists and Jews echoed the thinking of a defeated Germany after WW1. His promise of a brighter future with a restored Germany reverberated with many. His idea of a central authority meant fewer choices for the average person which appealed to most of the population. .I don't think he was a genius, he merely told people what they wanted to hear
     
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  9. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    This is not correct ,as there was no serious alternative for Barbarossa and as there are no proofs that Hitler underestimated the SU . Besides, if he underestimated the SU,he was in good company : after 22 june 1941 ,in London and Washington, one expected a Soviet collaps after a few weeks /a few months .
     
  10. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Which is the receipt for being a succesful politician .
     
  11. OhneGewehr

    OhneGewehr New Member

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    He underestimated the Red Army and he was in good company, and he did not ignore history - the Soviet Union/Russia lost all conflicts against major powers since 50 years.

    That he told people what they wanted to hear is wrong, but only to a point, he had a theory why history went its way and how an empire should be ruled and did not change it significantly. He lied about how he wants to achieve to make Germany great again and get rid of the Jews, Commies and so on.
    War wasn't popular in Germany, antisemitism wasn't very popular etc.
     
  12. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Antisemitism has been a staple in central and Eastern Europe for centuries.
     
  13. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    OK he was in good company then. You just made my point. You mentioned that another ruler sitting at the head.of the German state would fare no different. They didn't have to invade the SU. Hitler's mindset towards the Bolshevik was that they were "untermenschen". Believing the SU was populated by an inferior people enabled the National Socialist agenda.
     
  14. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    It was also central to Hitler's "Mein Kampf".
     
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  15. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Yes, your right Lou.

    Everything pointed to his hatred towards the SU. Another political entity may have been satisfied with the lebensraum land grab from '39-'41. But in Hitler's mind his prejudice overwhelmed his sanity.
     
  16. OhneGewehr

    OhneGewehr New Member

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    If antisemitism was so popular eveywhere, why then everything concerning the Holocaust had to be done secretly? why all the misnoming? Umsiedlung, Sonderbehandlung.

    Poland was the only land grab prior to Barbarossa, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark were never intended to be part of a later Germania, besides Alsace/Lorraine and Eupen-Malmedy.
    A reasonable political government couldn't even start a war, there wouldn't be a powerful army which already bankrupts the Reich in 1939.
     
  17. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    ???
     
  18. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    In Western Europe also. ;)
     
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  19. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Yes
     
  20. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Antisemitism was rampant throughout Europe. Yes there was tremendous violence, but nothing even compared to systematic murder. At the time, and in the past, there was bloodshed and an overall goal of shaming, humiliating and shunning the people of the Jewish race. There were attempts of deportation, sterilization and creating laws that would remove the bloodline in Germany. These were accepted by the German people. Foreign powers also knew of these attempts and did nothing. However, outright murder of men, women and children thousands upon thousands in the barbaric matter was pure evil. Hitler knew the people would protest.

    It was an evil that no one could ever fathom would happen in the existence of the human race. Pure hate driven by mad men.
     

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