Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

The Nanjing Massacre

Discussion in 'Concentration, Death Camps and Crimes Against Huma' started by K_Tiger, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. K_Tiger

    K_Tiger New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    7
    Hello all!

    I would like to know your thoughts on the Nanjing ( or Nanking) Massacre. By that I mean if you think it actually occurred or not. This massacre has been considered as a controversial topic. In my opinion, nothing can be considered absolutely true or false if controversy surrounds it. Hence, I would like to know the evidence provided on both sides. Thank you!
     
    Otto likes this.
  2. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,688
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I don't know where you got your information, but here's just one of many posts on this topic. It leads to an article and a film made by Japanese troops.http://www.ww2f.com/topic/31848-japans-last-wwii-veterans-of-nanking-massacre-open-up/?hl=%2Bnanjing+%2Bmassacre
    Here's another thread http://www.ww2f.com/topic/51508-site-for-the-rape-of-nanjing-maybe-too-much-for-some/?hl=%2Bnanking+%2Bmassacre

    Most of the "deniers" seem too be extreme Japanese nationalists, some of whom are in the Japanese government. Other than these die-hards, I'm finding it hard to find any "controversy". There has never been an official apology for the massacre or other Japanese atrocities.
     
  3. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    355
    Location:
    New England
    It's only controversial if your of the Revisionist minority. I doubt you will recieve much debate here.
     
    YugoslavPartisan likes this.
  4. green slime

    green slime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    568
    There is no controversy on the rape and massacre of Nanjing.

    Evidence? Look no further than the eye-witness accounts of John Rabe, a German living in Nanjing at the time.
     
  5. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    190
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Yep, no controversy. Zero.
     
    Smiley 2.0 likes this.
  6. adambhoy

    adambhoy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2012
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    44
  7. Smiley 2.0

    Smiley 2.0 Smiles

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    The Land of the Noble Steed
    What's really grinding my gears about this how there are people who are actually denying that this massacred actually happened, despite the fact that there is actual physical evidence that includes videos and photos (that are very graphic). It's almost as bad as denying that the Holocaust happened. Despite the fact that the number of people who denied that this massacre happened are fewer in number, it still shows that there are people out there who vehemently deny that something that has been already been proven happened from the time it occurred with tons of evidence that prove the contrary that a few nut jobs think.
     
    Dave55 likes this.
  8. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    9,457
    Likes Received:
    1,614
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Clearly the fact of the Nanjing Massacre isn't up for debate, and I guess the troll angle is possible but in K-Tiger's defense she mentioned she was 17 going on 18 and grew up in Indonesia. I know that in Asia, certain perspectives on history are quite different from what we learned here. While she's not from Japan, I know that what is taught in Japanese schools (and possibly Indonesian ones also) is an incredibly sanitized version of events. It's likely K_Tiger was exposed to different historical instruction on the Japanese involvement in WW2 than we might be used to.
     
  9. Dave55

    Dave55 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    190
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Ok, now I feel like I might have been a bit of a bully. I looked at K_Tiger's profile and noted the age but she didn't indicate she was a girl or where she was from. I googled 'K_Tiger' and saw a lot of karate/kung fu macho stuff so leap to conclusions.

    I'd be surprised if the Indonesian schools were pro Japanese though.
     
    Otto likes this.
  10. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,688
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I don't know what is taught in Indonesian schools, and K_Tiger asks a pertinent question. She is not espousing any particular point of view, and she was directed to sites that might satisfy her curiosity. I hope she takes that advice and expands her knowledge.
     
  11. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    355
    Location:
    New England
    I agree with Otto and Lou. There is no malicious intent on her part. Pure curiosity and a lack of knowledge. I do believe that the young have a bit of naivety to horrific events like this because of the influx of "sources" they can find on the Web. Which is a breeding ground for degrading ideas and viewpoints.
     
  12. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    9,457
    Likes Received:
    1,614
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    No need to feel bad, I felt the exact same way at first, and used my admin powers to run some searches against K-Tiger's email and originating IP to ensure there wasn't anything in common with previous members with untoward comment. I had more access to information that most for my response.

    Apologies to K_Tiger for the extra bit of due diligence on my part. I guess the silver lining is that her question definitely got some discussion going and we can all see how deeply feeling run when we talk about war in general and the Japanese actions in Nanjing in particular.

    As for Indonesia, right or wrong it is fertile ground for some anti-American feelings. Suharto was seen as a crony of the US, and he was a responsible for about a million Indonesian deaths. I've met a few Indonesians who felt this way, they weren't anti-America per se, but there is some bad blood about the fact that so few Americans even know who Suharto is. This might not make them take the Japanese perspective outright, but they might not question it as diligently as they might otherwise. If it matters it's also predominantly Muslim nation.
     
  13. K_Tiger

    K_Tiger New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    7
    Firstly, I have never specified my viewpoints when I posted the topic. However, my opinion has always been solid on this matter growing up and up until now: that it did happen.The evidence has always been laid out to me whenever I touch this topic in History lessons or on my own. I probably should have mentioned it.
    Secondly, I never intended for the topic to sound malicious. (My apologies if it did)

    (P.S: Dave55, I never knew my username provided those kind of results on Google. I should check it out. XD)

    So... I hope this helps in clearing things up?
     
    TiredOldSoldier, lwd and Otto like this.
  14. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    9,457
    Likes Received:
    1,614
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    It's safe to say at this point no one thinks you were trying to be malicious Kayla.

    Your question is proper in that you take nothing as fact until there is research, I always say a good historian is a skeptic first. Unfortunately some deniers of atrocities use this sort of tactic to introduce doubt into well known events like the existence of Nazi concentration camps or events like the massacre of Nanjing. Since you were a new member with an unknown background people assumed this. In time we either discover that 1) the person has malicious intent or 2) they are proposing legitimate questions. Happily was can put you in the second category.

    It has happened plenty of times since in the 15 years we have been online, and while we always try to be hospitable to all, it still happens from time to time. Please accept my humble apologies on the matter and let's move on to the discussions instead.
     
  15. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,312
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Location:
    Michigan
    There may be some "controversy" on the actual count although as with the Holocaust that sort of "controversy" is often used by deniers to deflect the conversation.

    The massacre there was pretty well documented at the time indeed the competition between two Japanese officers to see who could klll the most with a sword was reported fairly widely in the Japanese press of the time I believe. There is a lot of material on the internet related but I would suggest that you only look at the photos if you have a very strong stomach.

    This massacre and other reports both in the news and from missionaries gave rise to a very anti Japanese attitude in the American populace in the years leading up to WWII and is reflected in the Gallup Polls of the time.
     
  16. green slime

    green slime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    568
    Colour me Glad that Otto straightened that out!

    And welcome to the site K_Tiger!
     
  17. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    355
    Location:
    New England
    Yes, thank you Otto.
     
  18. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,688
    Likes Received:
    2,230
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Any time someone wants to dig deeper and research further, it's a good thing. It's especially true for a 17 year old hoping to expand her knowledge of something. There are not too many of any age who want to do that. Congratulations Kayla for raising a question that got the juices flowing in us. Enjoy your time here and feel free to ask anything about WW2 that comes to your mind.
     
    K_Tiger likes this.
  19. K_Tiger

    K_Tiger New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    7
    Thank you!
     
    Otto likes this.
  20. Engineer70

    Engineer70 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    11
    I believe the Nanking atrocities did take place from the many videos, photos, and testimonials. My Grandma was a Japanese nurse in the war and her eldest brother was in China (Don't know where), but the subject of China was always a touchy subject. I did ask her if they taught Nanking and other events of China in the Japanese schools and she said that they were mostly glossed over.
     

Share This Page