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The STEN

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by KodiakBeer, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Hickok45 does a lot of great little vids on various firearms. In these, he examines the STEN.

    This first one is 3 minutes and a quick look n' shoot of the gun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf-K-u_n8sw

    This second vid is 19 minutes and a good examination of how and why it works despite the utter simplicity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt70ilN_PgU
     
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  2. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Thanks KD, interesting and informative videos . I do not think they were made by Purdey or Greener !!
    Gaines
     
  3. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    No, but there's a certain elegance in pure functional design as well. I said elegance, not beauty!
     
  4. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

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    I was being silly. I fully agree , I spent my life practicing and teaching design and find the FAL the most appealing looking MBR and like the functional look of the Sten. I believe things should look like what they are intended to do. Loved watching and listening to that Sten !!

    The Lee Enfield ! Mark 3 (SMLE) is beautiful if homely and agricultural, to my eye. Had one and dumbly sold it. Some things are functional and beautiful, the Spitfire and 1851 Colt Navy, others like the Fairy Battle have no redeeming virtures.

    Design and aesthetics are endlessly fascinating to me, especially in military items. That front on view of the Hind 24 that is on the forum under Axis use of B-17's , is an ominous brut of a battle aircraft but purposeful and powerful looking. In WW2 tanks I like the Panther aesthetically, the JS 111 is more imposing, planes I oddly like the Beaufighter of all things. Reminds me of Winston Churchill ! In ships the German pocket battleships and heavy cruisers are quite beautiful to me.

    But I got off topic, the Sten is a long favorite and I would love to own one. I have had the great pleasure of handling Purdey's , in their shop in London but would not remotely care to carry one in the field......Too pretty !!!

    In your neck of the woods reliability and function would come to mind first !

    Gaines
     
  5. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Oh, I like a pretty gun as well. I wouldn't own a Glock for example, because I see its "functionality" as a step backwards - the awful trigger makes them hard to shoot well. They were built to be produced at low cost (even though they don't share that margin with the consumer), but just about any steel n' walnut handgun in the same price range is easier to get hits with.

    With the STEN, I think they were trying match the utility of the MP40 at much lower cost, and they largely succeeded.
     
  6. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    I just handled one the other day, along with other WWII arms, and it struck me, as you all have been discussing, the crudeness of the design compared to other sub-machine guns. It was relatively light, all things considered, and seemed uncomfortable.
     
  7. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    A submachine gun is only good for pistol ranges anyway, since it shoots pistol ammo. As a short range bullet hose, the STEN served its purpose. It's a bit more awkward than the PPSH, Thompson, MP40, etc, but because of the cost and quick production the British were able to put millions of these in the field. You can't beat that!

    After the war, with the emergency over, the Brits came up with the Sterling Submachine Gun. The Sterling is a much more refined weapon, but it's still a "child" of the STEN.

    The Sterling: [​IMG]
     
  8. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    The ammunition was also quite universal, correct?
     
  9. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    The STEN used 9mm ammo just like the British service pistol, the Browning Hi Power. The Germans also used 9mm in their MP40 and service pistols - Luger and P38. The Russians used the 7.62 Tok in both their pistol and subguns. The US used the .45ACP in the 1911 pistol and the Thompson and the M3.

    I think the Italians were the only ones to get that wrong. Their Beretta 1938 submachine gun used 9mm, but their M34 pistol used .380 (9mm short) which was not interchangeable with the standard 9mm parabellum.
     
  10. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Actually, with a smg you can probably put effective fire on a target out 100 meters or so. With a pistol firing the same ammo, most shooter would be doing good to get most of their rounds on a target at 25 meters. This is because the smg has a longer sight radius, plus the longer barrel adds some velocity to the bullet AND the buttstock adds considerable stability in holding the weapon.
     
  11. harolds

    harolds Member

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    We should also mention that the M-3 "grease gun" was issued with a 9mm conversion kit that could be fired using the Sten magazine. I suspect thi was so they could be issued to commonwealth troops if need be.
     
  12. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    100 yards is still short range and any shooter should be able to hit a man sized target with a pistol at that distance. One of the neat things about 9mm from a pistol is that with the standard 115 grain slugs the bullets will hit right on target at 25 yards and then again at 100 yards. Just an accident of trajectory.
     
  13. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I don't know about that.

    If you watch Hickok45s videos, he can routinely hit the 80 yard gong.

    A 1911 replica, 9:00-9:51
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB9HqsY0PBs

    Here he shoots a commander sized 1911 at the 230 yard gong, and does reasonably well - considering he's shooting a pistol.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2cnop15VA8
     
  14. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Here's an old video of mine shooting free hand at over 100 yards - a barrel, a roughly man sized target. This is with a crappy Argentine Hi Power with miniscule sights and I still manage 4 hits out of 6 shots. There's no reason you couldn't shoot 100% off a rest of some kind. I don't know how effective a FMJ pistol slug would be at 100 yards, but you can certainly hit people at that range.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLCs4UwT_tY&list=UUa8Ddxj_xCNEUuv89huzj9Q
     
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  15. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Sorry, I'm talking about the average soldier in WW2 where I doubt few did more than basic familiarization with the pistol. When I was in the US Army most people had a hard time keeping their shots on target at 25 yds. Can a proficient shot (which I'm sure Hickok45 and KodiakBeer are) hit at 100yds.? Sure, but most soldiers are NOT nearly as proficient as some of us gun nuts and saying "any shooter" should be able to hit at 100 meters is only correct if you add..."if they get very good coaching and plenty of practice." I totally remember the fellow Lt I was paired with during pistol training. I watched while every round he fired hit the dirt half-way to the target. The handgun is the hardest of all firearms to master. Only recently has handgun ownership really been common. Therefore, very few soldiers in WW2 had any prior experience in handgun shooting. A smg would be much easier to hit with at 100 meters-for all the reasons I mentioned. Then of course there is Elmer Keith and his 600 yd deer kill with a 44 magnum.
     
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Depends,

    Hickok45 does not appear to do as well with an MP-40, on the 80-yard gong, as he does with a pistol.(about 9:00-9:30).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RTlnBMvVm8

    Of course, when you are "preying and spraying" at 100 yards, you are probably bound to hit something.
     
  17. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    The reason I can shoot is because my Dad taught me. Where did he learn? The US Army. He shot and taught me to shoot old school - one handed with your off hand on your hip. Even with that antiquated style he'd get palm sized groups at 25 yards.

    Really though, in combat I suspect one would shoot from prone or over a sand bag or something at ranges of 100 yards or more. If you can see down the sights you can probably get hits even if you aren't very skilled. A man is a pretty big target.

    Of course it would be easier with a shoulder fired sub-gun. I'm just pointing out that you can do it with a pistol, even though most people never try.
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Also, I don't think that, about, 100 extra feet per second is going to make that much of a difference with regards to accuracy.
    Some of Hickok45's Glocks with 9-inch barrels, along with chronograph data
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HccnkSg49CI

    Which matches up fairly well with the Wiki data for the M1911(5-inch barrel - 825fps), M3 Grease Gun(8-inch barrel - 920fps), and the M1 Thompson(10.5-inch barrel - 935fps)
     
  19. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I still believe that an average soldier, all things being equal, would do better with a smg firing short aimed bursts, than with a pistol. Spraying wildly seldom gets results.
     
  20. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Absolutely.
     

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