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The tragedy of the carrier Zuikaku

Discussion in 'Naval Warfare in the Pacific' started by Skipper, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    October 25th is the 72th anniversary of the sinking of the Zuikaku . The Zuikaku wasa Pearl Harbor Attack Veteran


    At 13:09, a third attack reached the remains Ozawa's fleet and the Zuikaku was hammered mercilessly by American aircraft, as is the Zuiho. At 13:27, listing to port at 21 degrees, all hands were called on deck aboard the Zuikaku, the Ensign was lowered, and at 13:58 the order to abandon ship was given. At 14:14, the Zuikaku half-rolled to port and sank stern first. A little over half of her crew were rescued by accompanying destroyers. The Zuiho sank at 15:26, though a good portion of the crew survived despite the pounding that she suffered.

    http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/5912-leyte-gulf-a-japanese-perspective/page__st__20


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    One last salute while the colors are lowered.


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    One last Banzai and paying respect to the Emperor before abandoning ship.


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    http://www.asisbiz.com/ships/IJN-Zuikaku.html
     
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  2. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Always a good perspective to remember that there were human beings on those ships.
     
  3. FalkeEins

    FalkeEins Member

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    .. what a terrifying moment to stop and take a photograph of it...amazing!
     
  4. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Skip, let me correct you. That wasn't a tragedy at all - sinking of Ziukaku was an achievement of the US Navy. A tragedy is a very sad, unfortunate, or upsetting situation : something that causes strong feelings of sadness or regret. Tell me I am an insensitive bastard, but I have no such feelings for Ziukaku.
     
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  5. OhneGewehr

    OhneGewehr New Member

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    Zuikaku was a bait, her sinking was part of the plan to lure away Halsey from the battleships. It may seems strange, but it was a japanese success. The japanese Navy didn't need aircraft carriers anymore, lack of pilots, fuel and planes.

    For the sailors, it was a tragedy. But they fulfilled their duty, brave men. It wasn't their fault, that Kurita wasn't able to benefit from their achievement.
     
  6. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I'll save my salutes for the dead of Taffy 3, who died on the same day.

     
  7. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    @KodiakBeer: I've run-out of salutes today, anyways: :salute:

    Zuikaku was one of ships that treacherously attacked Pearl Harbor. They've well deserved it.
     
  8. OhneGewehr

    OhneGewehr New Member

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    The surprise attack of Pearl Harbour wasn't the idea of anyone aboard of the Zuikaku. They only did their job for the emperor. So they did at Leyte Gulf.

    It was a suicide mission and i respect those who had to fullfill their duty.

    @KodiakBeer: That's true. They fought cleverly and brave, but it was Halsey who was responsable.
     
  9. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    It hardly matters whom we hold responsible for events conducted in the fog of war, only that we remember the ordinary men who take their stations and do their duty. I may be an unapologetic nationalist, but I don't have much room to sympathize with the enemy dead. Let the Japanese mourn them, while I mourn for the American and allied sailors and soldiers.
     
  10. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    Exactly that is the reason I don't give a stuff if they have sunk or got burnt or whatever else could have happened: they played with fire and got burnt. A real tragedy is if a child plays on a playground and then a lunatic comes by, kidnaps and kill an innocent harmless kid. That is a tragedy. Tragedy is what the Japanese soldiers did in Nanking and many other places across the far east and Paciffic. They saw the wind...

    PS: @KodiakBeer. Again I have lack of "salutes" but: :salute: for your post above. Have a pleasant day. :)
     
  11. OhneGewehr

    OhneGewehr New Member

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    What did they saw? Is wind visible?

    I know about the war crimes of the japanese soldiers. But these sailors should be regarded as shipwrecked men when not capable to fight anymore. But most of them didn't need help, they were rescued by their comrades.
     
  12. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    This time I will respectfully disagree and give up.
     
  13. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude Patron  

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    No, they didn't see the wind. Tamino's statement is part of another saying. Read here for further enlightenment:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reap_the_whirlwind_(phrase)

    To put it in modern terms, try "what comes around goes around", or one of my favorites, "karma, what a bitch". Banzai my ass. They got what they had coming to them.

    KB and Tamino, my friends I have run slap out of salutes, but here's acknowledging y'all for saying exactly what I was thinking (in a much more acceptable way of course).
     
  14. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    I think these words deserve a bit more elaborate explanation as this phrase originates from Bible - Hosea 8, verse7:

    For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: he hath no standing grain; the blade shall yield no meal; if so be it yield, strangers shall swallow it up. (American Standard Version)

    Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris used a famous, shortened version to make himself quite clear:

    "They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind".

    In other, simple words: You cannot cruelly attack peaceful, gentle people and then expect merciful treatment in return. Swallow your own medicine, in multiple quantity to get a real taste of it. Peace and order sometimes have to be kept by unpleasant means. Otherwise, innocent nice people would suffer.
     
  15. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    I am sory but I simply cannot resist.

    Again and again we have parroting »they just did their duty«. That excuse is fundamentally and utterly wrong because it lacks remorse, confession and begging for forgiveness. Just pride – for the crimes they did.

    Therefore; they haven’t been beaten hard enough because they failed to learn what is decent to do: beg for an excuse. Especially the Japs and the ardent Nazis who still persist with: we made an oath. You can push somewhere your oath to the Bohemian corporal and keep moaning about the injustice you have suffered since 1942. You got what you've deserved.
     
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  16. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    I was waiting for that....well said. I was hoping you were going to work in some buckets of sunshine.
     
  17. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    @
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    First, thanks for the salute dude. :cool:

    ... one for you, without the black-white-red decoration with sweet little swastikas:


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  18. Gromit801

    Gromit801 Member

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    I have no time for haters. No respect either. My dad was at Pearl during the attack. He got over it after the war, checked it off to the bungling of governments on all sides. If men who were actually in the war can get over it, I suggest those who weren't there do the same.
     
  19. Tamino

    Tamino Doc - The Deplorable

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    This is not about hatred, this is about perception of the past. You have yours I have mine others have theirs. So simple is that.

    Neither do I have time for those who want to preach how should I feel or think.
     
  20. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Exactly right. This war was fought against political movements that systematically cut down tens of millions of lives.
     
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