Discussion in 'Post War 1945-1955' started by GunSlinger86, Mar 5, 2017.
Have you actually read "War is a Rackett"? If so I think you missed much of the message.
Link to it in my post #37: http://www.ww2f.com/threads/the-truman-doctrine.68162/page-2#post-805582
But, I doubt Gunslinger read it.
I read it. A long time ago. That's how I heard of Butler, then I learned about the Fascist business plot from there. I was just generalizing between the National Security State, "business interests" we fight for, the profiteering, the apparatus that is big big money.
It made my point, from my point of view at least. That doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, or you're right or wrong. We assess things and form opinions on different sets of facts. I draw one conclusion, you may draw another.
All opinions are NOT equal.
"Generalizing" from opinions rather than facts is one of the ingredients for the pervasiveness of conspiracy theories. I can "generalize" from my opinion of a single Jew, or a single person of color, or a single immigrant, or a single rich person to belief in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or the need to "preserve" the white "race", to the "threat" that a wetback will "take" my job, or that globalization is a plot to control the world run by George Soros.
"Generalizing" from opinions rather than rational evaluation from facts is actually a variant of magical thinking; the same type of thinking that informs us that the phases of the moon drive our thought processes, that the position of the stars and planets guide our lives, and that random events are the result of the willful acts of a small cabal of all-powerful rich people.
This went a little off track. If you acknowledge the Phoenix program in Viet Nam, Operation MK-Ultra, Air America (CIA front) assisting in the drug trade to finance anti-communist operations in South Viet Nam, the Mafia-CIA connection with Castro, JFK, RFK, then to me during the post-war world we seemed to align ourselves closer to the fascist side of the spectrum than to the left. Frank Wisner, OSS/CIA officer believe Soviet-ism was a future more insidious than Fascism, and we tended to operate along those lines.
Plus all the squads in Central and South America similar to the squads that operated in the East during WWII, supported by the CIA.
So, we're special?
We're shades of gray, and not always perfect, but neither is life and it is what it is. Its almost like no one can acknowledge the fact that the National Security/CIA apparatus has done shady things in the name of.... We have supported hard-right authoritarian dictators during the Cold War in the name of fighting Communism, so in terms of that spectrum we lean more towards Fascism/Corporatism, which is largely how we function now.
Nobody seriously suggests that the game is played according to gentlemanly rules.
Historian Eric Foner noted that the Truman Doctrine allowed the US to support and lend assistance to anti-communist regimes around the world, no matter how undemocratic. Hence why we supported and propped up Fascist dictatorships in smaller countries around the world which suppressed and oppressed. We agreed with old Adolf in those terms when it came to fighting and stopping the spread of Communism. And the supporting of authoritarian dictatorships, no matter how undemocratic, to fight communism, is also on par with old Adolf.
Should we have supported only those countries with systems just like ours and ceded the rest to the Soviets?
No, not at all. We tended to lean more towards the Fascist/Right-wing end of the spectrum and Communism was the threat to be fought ideologically, economically, covertly, etc. When we supported and propped up hard-right oppressive dictatorships to keep Communism from spreading, it was taking a side in the ideological battle vs. Communism. Had Hitler not invaded Poland and waged a Cold War similar to what happened with us in the post-war world, I believe we would have leaned in the Fascist direction as to financial and ideological support. We allowed the Fascists to openly support Franco in Spain during the Spanish Civil War which fought a sovereign, established government, and even prosecuted in front of the House UN-American Activities Committee those Americans who went over there to fight on behalf of the left-leaning government in place. For example, J. Edgar Hoover was a rabid anti-Communist, felt that was the major threat to the US and the world. He was like the dictator of the FBI and used illegal surveillance and police state tactics
The Americans who went to Spain were breaking a law founded on the neutrality of the US. The issue was that we didn't want to be seen helping one side over another.
So. He was correct they were a major threat to the US and the world.
I don't like the guy and don't agree with many things he did, but that doesn't change the fact that the Soviets/communism was the larger threat.
A larger threat than Nazism/Fascism?
Which one lasted the war and into the '90s?
Of course, had the US not taken a side, and, instead, followed a pre-WW2 Isolationist policy, Communism would have spread unimpeded
What one calls fascist, others call Socialist, and still others would call Communist...Such is the beauty of Democracy.
How do you think the US came about? By fighting a war against a sovereign established Government. We had also fought more than a few wars against foreign established Governments.
Still, you say we allowed the Fascists to support Franco. Well, we also allowed the Communists to support the Republicans...Does that make the US Communist?
We also allowed the shipments of "humaniitarian aid", that went mostly to the Republicans. However, American companies "supported" both sides, and millions of dollars of non-military products were sold to both sides of the SCW
You mean like illegally wire-tapping Charles Lindbergh, the Nazi Fascist US poster boy...Not to mention near about all Isolationist groups that were against a war with Germany.
J. Edgar had his own ideas about right and wrong and he followed them...going after Communist and Fascist supporters alike.
Separate names with a comma.