The Waffen SS threads...

I have a strong complaint.

I would like to know why and without any notice, the threads discussing the Waffen SS in the WWII General forum just vanished in the air... They had been closed, correctly I think, because the slowly degenerating discussion. But then, overnight, it's just gone, along every post, just because some moderator didn't like it?

I strongly object to that...

But what really pisses me off is that a thread I started, in which I provided a link to an excellent, serious documentary on YouTube about the Waffen SS (something many people should see), 'vanished' all the same... Not only do I reject the arbitrary censorship, I also demand an explanation.

 

I can't answer that but all I can say is-welcome to the world of the internet. Some of mine disappear on others sites as well but-as they say: "It don't mean a thang."

 

I think it might have been a timming issue what with the significance of the date and all the associated feelings.

It seems like the corporal's birthday brings the SS admirers out of the wood work. I can't say that I am dissappointed in a moritorium of pro SS/Nazi related threads and I do not mourn their absence.


Brad

 

Slip, if it was a technical misfunction, I don't have more to do than apologise for the tone. Now, if it wasn't...

 

Friedrich,

I understand your frustration, maybe you could start another one... I guess also depending on what Slip finds out. I know it's not the same, but I have a huge interest in the Waffen SS. Would love to see the documentary on youtube.

 

Hopefully I'm not breaching some protocol here but you can find the videos on YouTube by entering "(1/5) The SS (Waffen SS)" into the search function. It will bring up multiple choices and you'll see the 5 parts of the documentary that Friedrich posted.

I wouldn't want to do anything to feed the "nazi fanboys". If threads need to be clipped to keep things clean, then so be it. I would hope we could continue to post legitimate documentaries and newsreel footage from WWII. So far I only watched installment 1/5, but it was hardly pro-nazi.

Although this site has a photo gallery, I don't recall seeing a video gallery for items like this. Maybe that would allow a central access to documentary media without allowing "bad" attached threads to develop. Someone could start a thread with a link to the video in the gallery. If the thread turns "bad", the thread could be closed or removed without losing the video itself. Just a thought.

 

I imagine the server problem may have deleted some threads, I've seen it on other forums... one lost thousands as well as the members having them deducted from their post totals, all on a glitch.

 

Starting another one would probably not be in your best interest if all the other ones have been closed/deleted.

I think part of the reason for the closure was the timing...Hitlers Birthday and several 'Elite SS' threads occurring at the same time. You can put two and two together.

 

hitler's birthday is not until two days later the 25th of april,geez that's anzac day!

friedrich-
what yuo should do is why don't you start an anzac thread and talk about the mighty force of the aussie digger that how the germans admire the aussies diggers so much! yep it's true,the germans admire the aussies diggers for there fighting spirt.
it's a win situation for both,yuo and the forum. you;re thread will have somthing to do with germans and the forum will except it cause it's not about the waffen ss.
i do think the memebers will be interested in the aussie soldiers,they were just as tough as the waffen ss men were,but the aussies were not murderes.

 

Friedrich , this is the first and last time you talk about me like that. I don't think I have disrepected you so I'll ask you to respect me too. I can also be " really pissed off". I am not "some moderator" doing "some censorship" just because I "don't like something" and you are not in your local supermarket "DEMANDING" explanations.
I will yet give you one, not because you are Demanding it, but because I choose too:

The entire day of yesterday, SS threads have popped up, with the same blalbla about how "great" they were , the "elite troops", their "braveness" etc.... This has been discussed many times and these discussions are both pointless and attract trolls. There are also people who are not promoting them and who will claim that. That's fine ( as if we didn't know that before they said it). Yourself mention these threads should have been closed.
If members want to see SS videos at youtube, all they have to do is go there and type the word. Now I understand some wish to see the link here, so your thread is back and your links too, I can even add the Horst Wesel Lied for a small coctail party..... but don't complain if trolls pop up the next days.

 

most likely the squirts will come up gleefully. I think we need to be aware of the ever present feelings of Europeans whom the SS of all ranks plagued during the war. Too many strong feelings and the best bet is probably just post a link with out all the background noise to associate with it. If movies is what you want, go purchase a Deutsche Wochenschau propaganda film and in fact the films are on-line for free...........do a google searh more interesting than a goofy mock-up home-made visage to the SS or any other branch of the military from whatever nation.........

I also agree strongly with Skip the unit was NO elite, the status is a myth. having the top of the line in weaponry I suppose puts a person/unit in that mythical state of reference.

v/r E ~

 

most likely the squirts will come up gleefully. I think we need to be aware of the ever present feelings of Europeans whom the SS of all ranks plagued during the war. Too many strong feelings and the best bet is probably just post a link with out all the background noise to associate with it. If movies is what you want, go purchase a Deutsche Wochenschau propaganda film and in fact the films are on-line for free...........do a google searh more interesting than a goofy mock-up home-made visage to the SS or any other branch of the military from whatever nation.........

I also agree strongly with Skip the unit was NO elite, the status is a myth. having the top of the line in weaponry I suppose puts a person/unit in that mythical state of reference.

v/r E ~

 

Cheers Erich, it's not because I am European, simply because we don' t need five almost similar threads when they practicaly say the same thing. Keep one okay , or merge them, but why say five times in five different threads that the SS were this or that, especially as it has been said hundreds of times before. I am not trying to "censor" this subject more than another. I aim to get a quality forum, not one of those that soon or late will attract trolls like magnets if we encourage the deluge of SS threads at the rate it went yesterday.

 

And there lies one of the root problems.....That isn't strictly true.

From Normandy onwards (I have no source to state either way prior to this date) I have read many accounts of the Wehrmacht receiving supplies, replacement men and the latest frontline equipment before the Waffen SS.

Cheers

 

it's all a myth Drew, the training was good in the W-SS but as well as GD and other Heer units. yes depending on theater of ops one could receive more than the other and on a quicker note. Personally the men with the lighting collar-tab are over-rated. W-SS and anyting SS was taboo then in eht early 1970's bam ! the increase in information and the authorites coming out of the walls with books and articles and then the strange fascination of black and ..............

 

Yes april 25th is Anzac day,

but unless this is an obscure joke A.H. was born April 20th 1889 in Braunau Near Lintz in Austria and died April 30th 1945 in Berlin.

~Steve

 

Whilst it was not directed at you personally, Skip, I do apologise for my tone, though I still object the deleting of threads instead of just closing them. However, I thank you for reinstating the thread back. Finally, I'd suggest it to be moved to the sacred cows section, since all I wanted was to provide a link for that magnificent documentary, not starting another troll-inviting discussion.

 

I for one prefer to read about the Waffen SS and how they fought.

Yeah, there were "questionable tactics" in regards to prisoners, partisans and Russian civilians.

I think they fought very well against the Russians and held their own against the Americans & British for a while.

But I do not endorse/condone how they handled prisoners and Russian civilians.

 

If people want to discuss the elite status of the Waffen-SS that’s fine with me but please use some sound sourced information.

Problem with the myth is that before and during the war the Nazi regime portrayed the Waffen-SS as the elite in the media and post war authors perpetuated this myth: the though racial and physical selection, the best training, the best weapons, first in line to receive the best and newest equipment, etc. But everybody who studied the Waffen-SS beyond the parroted myths knows that it's all generalization. The Nazi’s wanted the Waffen-SS to be an elite, they failed to build them into an elite, but people want to believe the myth.

The though racial and physical selection – before the war, yes. But as soon as the war started the selection criteria became less strict, by 1942 they were almost gone and by 1944 the Waffen-SS accepted basically every man who could carry a rifle. From 1943 the Waffen-SS prime divisions started to compensate the losses with the so-called “Göring-Spende”, thousands of ground personnel from the Luftwaffe was transferred to the Waffen-SS involuntarily. From 1944 the Waffen-SS also gained access to the conscription pool.

The best training – the SS “groupies” make a lot out of nothing. Yes, before the war they received different training than the Heer. But after the Waffen-SS learned the hard way that their performance was terrible in Poland and in the western campaign they quickly dropped their own training methods and adopted the regular Heeres doctrines. From 1941 on there was no serious difference between training in the Waffen-SS and the Heer. Which makes sense because why, if SS training had indeed been superior, would one keep this doctrine from the rest of the armed forces. Try to find a single Dienstvorschrift that reads “just for the SS”. You won’t find any.

The best weapons – before the war and during the early years of the war the Waffen-SS did not have access to modern equipment because it all went to the Heer, the only exception being the Leibstandarte. The rest of the Waffen-SS had to do with old stock, a load of captured weapons from Czech depots, later completed with Polish, Dutch, Belgian and French stuff. Only in 1942 the I. SS-Panzerkorps was formed which was at that time a formidably equipped force. The Waffen-SS was at the height of it’s military power at that time but Charkow, Kursk and a whole series of other bloody engagements would soon finish that. From 1944 on Waffen-SS divisions were organized like their Heer counterparts.

First in line to receive the best and newest equipment – another hobbyhorse of the SS fans. But when you look at it, they simply cannott name a serious weapon that was first received by the SS that made a difference, or they cannot name a serious weapon that was first received by the SS. Tiger tanks? By the time the Waffen-SS deployed it’s first platoons of Tigers the Heer already had several complete heavy Tiger battalions (of which one was already lost in Africa). Panther tanks? Made it’s debut with the Heer at Kursk and after that it was delivered to both Heeres and Waffen-SS Panzer-Divisions. The Sturmgewehr? The bulk went to Heeres Volksgrenadiere long before the Waffen-SS received some. I can list more but I think I made myself clear. Not surprising because they received their equipment through the Heeres-Waffenamt.

Elite? – The Waffen-SS was not an elite. It contained too many second and third rate units. The Waffen-SS did have some elite divisions. Roughly the Leibstandarte, Das Reich, Totenkopf and Wiking. Out of 38 divisions that’s not enough to call the Waffen-SS as a whole an elite. Point is also that the Heer had it’s elite as well: the prime Panzer-Divisions (1., 2., 3., 4., 6., 9., etc.), Grossdeutschland, Panzer-Lehr and off course some excellent infantry divisions. And obviously these elite divisions suffered from the same problems as the Waffen-SS elite divisions during the war.

So where did this myth come from? It's clear that wartime German media profiled the Waffen-SS as the elite at the cost of the Heer. All to often the press gave the Waffen-SS credit for Heeres achievements. Simply because in Nazi propaganda the Waffen-SS had to be the elite. SS veterans, allied veterans and post war authors happily parroted this myth and due to the internet it is by now almost impossible to look at the facts without SS groupies diluting the discussion with fairytales.