This is BOUND to irk some, OH well

In my time in the forum here ive run across a bunch of individuals who shall remain nameless who seem to Feel the NAZIS IE wehrmacht, Heer, Waffen SS, gestapo, Luftwaffe Kriegsmarine ETC, were Some glorious noble band of teutonic knights... I for the life of me DO NOT understand this mentality..i also see how when pressed when proof that the germen war machine wasnt the best they get upset and question others on these facts... So what id like to know is two fold... why are the Nazis held in such high esteem when its common knowledge the trauma the caused the world and the murders of MILLIONS.. The japanese soldiers arent held in such high regard. Why is this??

Also why when faced with documentated proof your wrong, do you individuals become personally slanderous against other members... ive been proven wrong about Death cards.. i thought at first it was kinda ghoulish but now ive been Enlightened... also Most of these nazi worshipers ARENT even military vets, most havent spent a day in uniform yet ya have fantasies of killing stalin as a sniper or some such rot... I wana know why your sooo defensive when in reality if you were alive in the dark days of ww2 a nazi would blow your brains out and not blink or show remorse.. PLEASE enlighten me... give me some valid points why these figures are seen in such high regard....

 

Shameless Bump... i want some good arguments boys and girls...

 

Well, we had a thread more or less on this but it was closed. In order to avoid much repetition it was here:

http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/24647-open-letter-all-re-enactors-waffen-ss-units.html

 

Oh no this isnt similar ZA... im not asking reenactors im ASKING point blank why are the friggin nazis so Loved and admired... Why the allies the japanese and theitalians arent admired. and WHY if your such an expert on ww2 (ALMOST TO THE POINT OF THINKING YOUR A SNIPER) do ya love the nazis so much and i dont wana hear the tired NOT all committed war crimes NOT all were nazis etc etc because its common knowledge what the nazis did..... boys and girls the holocoust wasnt fabricated IT HAPPENED.. thousands of british and french civilains DIED... MILLIONS of russians. and for what.. I wana know what is the fascination with these dudes,,, i want some valid answers and i dont wana hear how nice theyre uniforms were or how sweet theyre tanks were,, or how cool theyre weapory was... Enlighten me

 

I had posted this link before...

I have no idea what causes this, is it the pretty uniforms, the snazzy camouflages, the video game instant hero mentality? Or some deeper things psychiatry talks about? I don't know, I really don't know. I had a brief infatuation with these as a kid but just grew out of it and became a (somewhat) normal person.

I suppose you'd better try to get some answers from "them", whoever they are.

 

thing is i didnt serve in world war two.. i served in combat in todays so called modern age... war is war in my mind... Killing isnt fun... it is dirty business... and i find these arm chair commandos MOSt dont have the balls to enlist and go kill the bad guys abroad yet they glorify basicly in my mind BULLIES... IM asking those wehrmacht worshipers DIRECTLY WHY... ive read the bios of the germen gi in ww2.. several and NOT one of ever admits GEE maybe we were wrong or i did some pretty mseed up things.. it was alway I did my duty... I did it for the father land... yada yada im sick of excuses I want some valid answers from these worshippers and NOT OPINIONS or some drivel how the nebelwefer was sooo coool. illl take a modern MLRS over a nebelwerfer any day LOL

 

If millions in Germany fell for the propaganda, no wonder some still fall for it today. On the forum, we ban Nazi worshippers. It could be their false interpretation, ignorance, or deliberate , the last option being the most dangerous one, because these guys will worship the 3rd Reich while being fully aware of the horrors Whether it is provocation or ideology I don't know. Age seems to be an important factor. as Za said when people grow older, they usually learn, some never do...

 

thing is I admire some of the nazis IE theyre revolutionary tactics I admire otto skorzeny. but i know he had a black heart and he was a nazi even if he was a genius as far as special opertions.... But i dont discount the other geniuses in this arena like Montbatten and Darby and Frederich... I also dont care if the mp-40 was better then the m-3 or sten how would these people know they use em in REAL world conditions IE combat when your life depends on it. and frnakly uniforms dont win wars, if that was the case the US army would be getting smoked by the Boy scouts because the new ACUS are ugly as a sin. and worthless. I bet i wont get much of a reponse fomr those im directing this thread too... just like i didnt get a response when i told old boy he hadnt a clue about being a professional soldier and a sniper... and if they dont have the intestinal fortitude to answer me in an inelligent manner with VALID points... it will speak volumes on theyre character and true knowledge of world war 2

 

It appears that you may well have fallen for some of the propoganda yourself

What revolutionary tactics? My understanding is that most of what they did was developed not by Nazis but by military professionals in a number of countries. They just implemented it first. Corrections welcome?

Was he really? Again I'm far from an expert but I seam to recall reading that he gets credit for the work of a number of other German soldiers and that some of his operations were almost disasters.

My apologies for somewhat side tracking your thread.

 

Can ya back up your claims about skorzeny IM not doubting you BUT id like facts .. hey i admire skill and brains and intestinal fortitude.. he still was a nazi... that i dont admire....

 

I'll see what I can dig up but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable types will jump in before then.

 

Here's a 'little list' for you Mortman:
http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/21568-why-third-reich-bad-thing.html
Sadly, it degenerated into US politics, but there's still some 'ammunition' on there.

As for the Germans and 'innovative' tactics... not half bad I'd say .
Eben Emael and operations Hedderich & NIWI spring to mind.

Cheers,
Adam.

 

I think the post about the bad things with the third reich should be MANDATORY READING for all new recruits and cadets in our little band of rogues

 

Well, we can see that the Nazi propaganda worked back then and is still working. Have to admit that Nazi Germany put on a good show

YouTube - nazi-germany 1939 in color

It is aweinspiring until you see their dirty laundry. I think you answered your own question. Those to whom you are referring to have not served and do not know what it is to even train for battle. Like the rest of our youth, their education and experience is gain through the TV and their X-boxes. I would say just look at the source. Reality will hit them pretty soon.

 

Mortman -- I am pleased you brought this up. I very much enjoy this forum but I actually feel uncomfortable when I read some of the posts that are apparently pro-Nazi. When I was a boy, the Germans were always the bad guys when we played War or with Army Men. There was no moral ambiguity about it. I still feel the way about WWII Germany (and Japan).

I do not mean this to offend any German readers. Indeed, I have many friends in Germany and I hold German culture in high regard. But when it comes to the historical black mark of the Nazi years, the German government and anyone who supported it -- whether as the result of ideological agreement or patriotic ignorance -- had no positives to recommend them. If one takes a good quality and perverts it to criminal end, the good quality is no longer good. Thus, I can find no good in the perversions of Nazi Germany (although I am sure that there were "good" Germans in the War).

 

I can tell you from interviews from German veterans during the war plus relatives living "there" during the insane times that your question would really puzzle them and they indeed gave me a look of "what are you talking about? " - cool ?

Mort you probably will never get a straight up answer here, your best bet is to join up on one of the many anarchy forums and ask away. maybe you need to ask the 20 somethings and younger why they have this need to really dig into evil and take it for what it is worth - perversion of our present day society ? Heck it was the same in the 1950's though, opened up a book that was in colour and all you could say was wow ! nobody really had a real interest then not until the "cool" late 60's/70's and the writers came forth many with their myths.

by the way dg I know many good Germans during the war. Am going to make an observation about this thread, unless we are careful this will just de-generate into something previously seen ........

 

I hear you and I agree. I was not suggesting that members of the forum should not be allowed to express their preferences. Indeed, above all others, I do value our first amendment rights and would hate to see a stifling of free expression on these forums. Nevertheless, I share Mortman's confusion. I do not understand why anyone would identify with the Nazis or extol their perceived virtues. For all of the "what ifs" that can be played out, Nazi Germany perpetrated great atrocities and ultimately lost the War. So they were bad and they failed. To praise Nazi Germany is like praising the Stalin's purges or any other atrocity committed in the name of one's country. Accordingly, I echo Mortman's sentiment and ask anyone who disagrees to please educate me. I am not so set in my ways that I do not want to hear other viewpoints and sometimes I even learn from them (although my wife disputes that!).

 

I doubt some of "them" would try to explain thier infactuation or adoration of the Germans during the war. OR can. I too was one who grew out of it as I got older and learned more. The Videogame mentality and knowledge of history seems to have added to the misconceptions and misinformation these days. When faced with the correct information and reality some tend to either ignore the facts or react negatively by being aggressively vulgar because it doesn't fit thier incorrect views. Those tend to not last long here LOL.

 

as I said dg and this goes to Mortman and anyone else, you will not find your answers here as no one of youth is brave enough and maybe foolish enough to respond

again I am expressing my opinion. Ron Goldstein was also trying to find out through different channels why someone would pick up and enjoy I believe a W-SS uni, etc.......

sadly many of the party are still being idealized. Will tell you my relatives on my mothers side served a terrible regime, did that make them Nazis ? ...no it did not, but that of course can be easily broadened out with a multiple of explanations, excuses and some solid reasoning. If anything my Familie was and is totally embarassed and ashamed for what happened in regards to their country serving as it did in the war.

 

This is exactly my point that not all Germans were "bad" during WWII. I am sure most, especially those in rural areas, were just hoping to live through the War and did not espouse any ideology other than self-preservation. I am also sure that many Germans were duped and others were simply indoctrinated at such a young age as to not have any real ability to judge. Still others were frightened by what would happen if they did not wave the flag. Indeed, I believe that there were "good" German soldiers who hated the government they served but who felt that they could not betray their country. (I imagine that there were a soldiers in the Army of the Confederate States of America who felt the same way.)

My point is only that when one idealizes the soldiers of Nazi Germany, they are idealizing the soldiers who were not the "good" Germans and the "good" German soldiers who did "bad" things. We can and should learn from the German military of WWII but to lionize it is embrace a doctrine that was and remains evil. (Erich -- I know that you are not disagreeing with me but your replies are a great foil for the development of my thoughts on this subject.)