Ricky asked about Tigers in Italy so here it is. 1. Schwere Panzer Abteilung 504 saw action in North Africa and Sicily before action on the Italian mainland. In total 504 received 109 Tiger Is during it's existance(including North Africa and Sicily). As far as just Italy goes, 504 received 45 Tiger Is from 28th Feb to 21st April 1944 when it was reestablished on the Italian mainland. It received a further 12 Tiger Is in July 1944 and 15 Tigers Is transfered over from 508 in Feb 1945. Altogether battalion 504 lost just 27% of it's Tigers in action. 73% were self destroyed. 2. Schwere Panzer Abteilung 508 was the other Tiger battalion in action in Italy. It received a total of 78 Tiger Is during it's existance with the first deliveries coming in December 1943 and January 1944. It spent it's entire existance on the Italian front. It suffered just 19% losses in action. 59% were self destroyed and 22% were due to 'other' causes. 3. Schwere Panzerkompanie "Meyer" had 8 Tiger Is and saw action in the Anzio region from Jan to March 1944. In March 1944 it's 8 Tigers (none of which were knocked out) were handed over to battalion 508. No King Tigers were ever in action in Italy. It appears that in Italy, 504 and 508 didn't have a high kill score compared to other Tiger battalions in other theatres. They themselves were not put under much pressure either as the low loss numbers show. The Tigers in Italy didn't see as much action as those elsewhere. My opinion is that the two Tiger battalions were wasted in Italy. The terrain was unsuitable for them, they weren't used as much as they could have been and more importantly they would have been more useful on the eastern front. The Germans might have been better replacing the Tigers there with Panzer IVs as it could have done the same job there. Oh well.
My God Lyndon, is there anything you don't know about the Tiger? Shouldn't you like, broaden your view a bit? Seriously, excellent work there and in the other topic.
Well Roel, it's very easy when you have excellent referances to go on (which cost an arm and a leg to buy) but thanks anyway. Funnily enough, I rarely peruse the internet for information and sources. Books are better and more accurate especially these newr ones.
Ok, time for my mathematics genius to shine through... I make that a grand total of 195 Tiger I's used in Sicily, Italy & North Africa. 44 were destroyed by enemy action. Is that right?
That sounds about right Ricky. These two Tiger battalions destroyed over 350 enemy tanks between them so that's a kill ratio of 7 to 1 between them and these were not the most 'able' of the Tiger battalions. Schwere Panzer Abteilung 503 (mainly in Russia) had 1,700 plus enemy tanks destroyed against 120 Tiger losses.I think the lowest ratio was somewhere about 3 or 4 to 1 but off hand I can't think of the unit. Likewise one unit had a circa 27 to 1 kill ratio but I've forgotten which one.
Interesting that Italy had roughly 3 Tigers for every Tiger in NW Europe. (195 vs 62) I wonder why? Given that Italy was bad tank country, and the Tigers seem to have had relatively less use / success, surely a reversal of the ratio would have been better? (eg: 195 in NW Europe, 62 in Italy)
Well, don't forget that the figures for Tiger Is that I gave was post Normandy, from about September 1944 onwards until the end of the war whereas the Tigers in Italy, North Africa and Sicily were from a time span from the beginning of 1943 (for Schwere Panzer Abteilung 504 in North Africa) to the end of the war. If I were to include the Tiger Is that were involved in the Normandy battles then it would be an additional 123 Tigers. The reason why my original post was from September 1944 onwards was to show that at around the time the Sherman 76mm was making itself felt in bigger numbers there were very few Tiger Is to confront them so encounters must have been rare. In Normandy 1944 : 1. Schwere SS Panzer Abteilung 101 (501) had a full compliment of 45 Tiger Is in June (plus an additional 14 King Tigers delivered in late July/ early August which saw limited action in France). 2. Schwere SS Panzer Abteilung 102 (502) had a full compliment of 45 Tiger Is in early July (but no King Tigers). 3. Schwere Panzer Abteilung 503 had 33 Tiger Is plus 12 King Tigers in early July (and later on at the end of July received another 14 replacement King Tigers which only saw limited action in France) The Tiger I production stopped in August 1944 and production of the King Tiger took over fully so there were fewer Tiger Is everywhere from late 1944 onwards especially as the Germans blew them up rather than seeing them captured intact.
The 'Ones' that got away OK guys... Only 'One' Tiger I got away from North Africa (except the Bovington Tiger I and the ex-Aberdeen APG Tiger I's) and was ferried back to Sicily and then only one Tiger I got out of Sicily (222) and the breakout might be of interest to readers for number in NA and then in Sicily before Italy? Do you folks want the breakout of Tiger I's delivered into North Africa and their unit entrainment? Then the Tigers in Sicily? Confusion is rampant on the part of printed current sources and the numbers of Tiger I's from most authored sources are flat incorrect! I am following this discourse with interest as to have the direct source credits for the numerification of the "AFRIKA" Tigers. The sending of only 1Kp. of schwere 504 to NA and then the subsequent merging on March 17, 1943 of the sch. 501 and the 1Kp./sch.504 into an homolgeous unit changed the numbering system seen and there is a lot of incorrect material floating around. I am in the midst of putting to print a new book on this subject and am interested in anything of cooberation to research findings to date. I am posting some info. over at our AANA Research group's site on the particular subject currently... http://www.AFRIKAKORPS.Org
