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To show you how ignorant the general population of America is.

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Fury 1991, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Sixty percent?...Hmmm.
    I have spoken in the past about how the media tells us how superior we are as a species...Then look at the actual events, ideas and discoveries made that have advanced us so far....and realise that a teeny tiny percentage of people were involved...i'd say about 0.025 percent are actually driving this world forward...the rest of us are just rooting eating and shi##ing like all the other animals...
     
  2. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    As an "old" teacher, I can attest to the fact that all knowledge is connected. I was trained to teach history and social studies, but the more involved I got, the more I realized that I needed to know something of all the other subjects if I expected my students to retain what I exposed them to. I had to include proper English so they could write, basic math so they could figure averages, science so they understood the importance of calendars and time zones, etc. I was not a particularly strong math or science student as a child, but I found that the more I taught, the more knowledge of them I needed to know. The students were not so much "ignorant" as unexposed to that inter-connectedness.
     
    lwd likes this.
  3. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Fantastic post Russo...An excellent example of how one needs a rounded knowledge to actually understand things...(science and also history/anthropology would be good for calander teaching) - As you know, we work off a Roman(esque) calander that marks the birth of Christ - Many dont realise this....especially those from other non-christian backgrounds).
    I would like to ask you and your experience how much actually being interested in a subject helps in learning and retaining knowledge once learnt (A great man once said "You only know as much as you can remember" - actually that was me.) I think getting students "interested" in a subject is half the battle for teachers, except i dont see many even trying.
     
  4. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

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    I was an inveterate story teller, but the end result of these stories was to get hold of the student's interests. Many of my students either remembered the stories or had their interest piqued enough that they investigated on their own. (You have to remember that, for well over half of my career, I taught 12 year olds).

    I tried to show my students that the calendar we use is based on the purported birth of Christ, and that other societies (Jews, Hindus, Buddhists,etc) used a different starting point. Fortunately, I had a number of Jewish students which gave rise to a discussion of why their calendar differed.

    Unfortunately, there are very few of the "old timers" left, and newer teachers are imbued with the need to raised test scores, so they have little time for "stories".
     
  5. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    You sound like one of the "cool" teachers...one that people remember...my fav teacher had 5 degrees and always presented information in story form, brought history to life and made it sound like it happened yesterday, giving it that "recent" feel and putting information into the "survival" area of the brain/memory...you never forget things if you file it in that spot. Thanks for your answer mate.
     
  6. GrandsonofAMarine

    GrandsonofAMarine Member

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    Obviously some fields require crossing into other fields of study. I just do not think presenting a little of everything is very effective. I went to college. I did the two years of prereqs. Most of that knowledge has been lost because I don't use it. The same holds true for most people. Universal superficial knowledge is not really knowledge. To know something you must investigate it deeply. I don't think basic courses are adequate in that regard.
     
  7. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Universal superficial knowledge is not really knowledge.

    - Mate...! Knowledge is not really knowledge?? ALL knowledge is knowledge...i think you mean superficial knowledge is not neccessarily useful in ones everyday life...or professional life...true is many cases, not in others. There is no good or bad knowledge, only useful knowledge in ones own life...how will you know whats going to be useful? Its already been discussed that even if one WANTS to specialise in a subject then one has to delve into other areas to specialise properly...knowledge doesnt exist in a vacuum...(You're a knowledge snob! : )

    To know something you must investigate it deeply.

    - Again, disagree, to know some things, extensive investigation is needed, but there are many things one can know from reading or a conversation...using "other" peoples investigation time, experience and conclusions...
    We all think we know our partners...how many "investigate deeply"?
     
  8. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    Why are people so shocked at this?

    This phenomenon is not new, nor is it prevalent to the American century alone. The average Roman citizen in their Empire period ared little for the activities of the Legions. Nor was it public knowledge as to exactly what their soldiers were perpetrating in the name of the Roman people. It got so bad, and service with the legions was so unpopular with the ordinary Roman citizen that they had to outsource recruitment to the provinces, dangling Roman citizenship as a carrot just to get bums in uniform.

    The glory of the soldier is fleeting. You only have to look at what happened to returning veterans of the Vietnam conflict to see that the country that they were supposedly fighting to preserve changed so much in their absence that on their return, Vietnam vets were strangers in a strange land.

    Remember, the greater majority of free thinking people see the military and militarism as something not to be concerned about. They do not have our wide background of facts and figures to draw from, and in their busy day to day lives, will not change this for lack of time/money/motivation/intelligence. The population are not ignorant, they just don't CARE until a national emergency hits their particular comfort zone. I'm not quite sure why, but it's got something to do with seeing military events as negative aspects of human existence, and therefore, not something to be dwelt upon.

    I live in a town that has many serving soldiers. I socialize with some of them. Most of them are ignorant of military history as well. One night in my mini-bus, I took home two tank corps soldiers to the barracks from town. They were discussing their impending rotation to Iraq. I asked them what they could do about close assault of their armour, given that it's the most effective way to destroy an AFV. I used historical examples. These guys looked at me and shook their heads, "We've got tactics to deal with that, sonny!" I was unconvinced, and the sneering response that I got was "Have you ever heard of Micheal Wittman, mate?"

    Have I ever heard of Micheal Wittman!

    I not only described Wittmans entire career in a nutshell, I gave them a rollicking account of his finest hour at Villers Bocage.

    These men were the ignorant ones, and they were serving tankies.

    So, why does this suprise y'all coming from civvies?

    This is Orwell in action, with the superstate able to wage continuous warfare on the fringes of the state, while the greater majority of it's people are not only unaffected, but unaware of the circumstances of their service, returning or otherwise. It's the same as he predicted. I don't know why you're so shocked.
     
  9. muscogeemike

    muscogeemike Member

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    “Remember, the greater majority of free thinking people see the military and militarism as something not to be concerned about.”

    Volga Boatman, I agree whole heartedly with you and would add guilt to the mix. I spent some time as a recruiter in an upper middle class area, these people would only rarely even consider military service. I think seeing uniforms and the ceremonies welcoming home soldiers triggers the “guilt” reaction - reminding them that they won’t serve yet reap the benefits of those who do.
     
  10. Victor Gomez

    Victor Gomez Ace

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    You guys are right, but I have to add something here, I know of many Viet Nam Veterans that now do a great job in their careers in government, and business who are also forgotten. It is forgotten when they continued in high service even after their military careers so I am pointing this out as I see it as a somewhat invisible contribution.....that those we lost in Viet Nam and those that continued in service today are very important to us. Their service life of course is not unlike those from all the wars that have been fought by the free world. We lost many to the sacrifice of war who gave their lives making things better for all of us and then those who survived their service frequently continued a lifelong service to their country and communities with their leadership. In a way this is a story of the free world. Just giving credit where credit is due. Now what does it mean for me as an individual that appreciates what has been done by them. I am going to do my best to be optimistic about our futures around the world. Why? I do not want to give up one iota of their dreams for their children they both sacrificed, or lived their lives to attain, for the rest of us. It behooves all of us to try to overcome ignorance in everything we do to make things better. I know I have my ups and downs and eventually have to sort things out to come to realize a good many things. For one thing, at no other time in history have we had better tools to overcome ignorance. It takes a lot of tools to overcome mine. It is a constant battle. However, if we see what we have it is amazing. I once had a chance to play around with a frequency hopping data radio that was being utilized to provide communication amongst gas wells where all available frequencies had already been bought up by local companies to command their gas fields. I began to compute how much data these little radios could move despite the fact that they were frequency hopping to avoid disturbance to existing frequencies. I realized then that a few radio installations in a large city could revolutionize communication as we then knew it. Fiber optics is another revolutionary development. So yes we have ignorance to fight but we have better tools than we ever had before.....we just need to learn how to use them. If we do a good job of learning that, we are well on our way to progress we may have never dreamed of before. I will force myself if I have to to remain optimistic to keep things going forward. We have the challenge so then let us not give in to degenerative forces to prevent what we may be on the verge of achieving if we use the tools we have wisely. Just why we can't despair about ignorance in my opinion.
     
  11. PFlint

    PFlint Member

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    1)today I think that 60 % is a bit low.
    2)separating the human from troglodyte is getting harder every year.
    3) perhaps after this long a time that 'full pay' is actually retirement.
    I would certainly hope that a suspension could not last for TEN YEARS!
    4) nice quote from Bertrand Russell
     
  12. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I was happy with my 14 daughter last night as I quizzed her on the way to ballet practice.

    She knew who the US VP, Sec State and the Senators from our state are. She also knew who our state Sec of State is, but probably only because she is an old HS friend of mine.
    She knew which side won the Vietnam war. My wife didn't know that one.
    She knew how long the US Supreme Court Justices served.
    She knew which branch of gov't enacted laws.
    She knew who Bill Clinton's Veep was.
    She described in detail where Iraq is (giving names of bordering nations), as well as the nation of Georgia and where the island of Tasmania is.
    She rolled her eyes when I asked her what nations border the US and gave me one of those "Do you think I am a bone-head?" looks.
    She knew what the basic monetary unit of the United Kingdom is.
    Lastly, she knew the name of the small principality in the Pyrenees Mountains that is bordered by France and Spain.

    Beautiful and intelligent, she is.

    She goes to a private school, btw.

    While schools teach, it is ultimately my responsibility to see that she knows it. I am her father after all.
     
  13. muscogeemike

    muscogeemike Member

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    According to the TV segment he was and is still only suspended. He admits he does next to nothing for his pay!
     
  14. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    I am her father after all. - Thats right and a reflection of you. Not sure i could answer all those questions...
    Interesting to hear an American actually say that someone "won" the vietnam war...we in Australia dont mention that much to yanks...
    And Australia won its Vietnam war...after the battle of Long Tan the Viet Kong and NVA were instructed to avoid Australians at all costs...war was won! Our war anyway...

    If only all children were that "into" the world.
     
  15. GrandsonofAMarine

    GrandsonofAMarine Member

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    That last one is a stumper. Basque? Nope, Andorra. Google rocks.
     
  16. GrandsonofAMarine

    GrandsonofAMarine Member

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    The irony of this discussion is that those with access to the internet have more knowledge at their fingertips than the all of the libraries in the world combined. Knowledge is omnipresent today.

    My personal mottos are: Sapere Aude(Dare to Know) and Knowledge is power.(Descartes) I love learning. I love knowing. But the odd thing about learning is that it makes you realize just how ignorant you are. It is impossible to know all, but darn it, I sure am going to try!
     
  17. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Know what you mean...i used to fantasize (thats a can isnt it?) as a kid how much i'd know when i died of old age...
    As an adult i think i know about 0.000000000000674 percent of what there is to know...working on one percent...(wont make it).
     
  18. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Wow, I have to catch up now, I'm two digits behind you. Give me another life or two :)
     
  19. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    This one isn't as easy as it seems. How exactly are you defining border? Especially as it relates to Islands? Do you go with the old 3 mile limit or are you insisting on a land border or the new 12 mile limit or the Contiguous zone or the exclusive economic zone? If you use the latter then quite a few countries are added to the list. It also then becomes important as to whether you mean just US states or include the likes of Guam, Porto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. Even the 12 mile limit though is probably enough to add Russia to the list.
     
  20. Gromit801

    Gromit801 Member

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    True, you can add Russia (Diomede Islands) and the UK (British Virgin Islands).
     

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