hi guys the US army in ww2 had some NCO ranks with some T's under neath like in the picture underneath but what i dont understand is what is the purpose of it?
In 1942 the Army introduced the rank of TECHNICIAN by adding the "T" to existing chevrons. These individuals were paid at the rate corresponding to the chevrons, outranked the next lowest non-technician rank, but had no supervisory authority outside of their technical specialty. Technical ranks were especially common in the US Army Air Corps. In 1943, my father, a medical specialist, was a Technical Sergeant...three stripes with a T. These ranks were discontinued in 1948. In 1952 the Army introduced a different and parallel rank structure to recognize the increasing number of specialists in its structure. This included the ranks of Specialist 4 through Specialist 9. The latter grades existed on paper only and apparently were never awarded. Specialist 7 was abolished in 1978 and Specialist 5 and 6 in 1985. Specialist were not considered non-commissioned officers and had no line authority over troops. Soldiers in the Combat Branches (Armor, Infantry, Artillery) and Combat Support Branches wore chevrons instead and were called "hard stripers". I personally never saw a specialist during the 1950's-1980's higher ranking than a Specialist 5. Presumably, the elimination of the SPECIALIST grades were due to the Army's move to redefine Military Occupational Specialties and establish broader responsabilities commensurate with the pay rates. Along with this came a revised and quite extensive system of mandated military/career/techical schooling required for promotion. Today, the only remaining specialist rank is SP4 and it generally denotes a pay rate equal to that of a Corporal. It is even found amongst the combat branches.
My father held a T5 rank for part of WWII but was a rifleman in the Infantry. Why would that be? Why would a combat soldier hold a T-ranking? He was in combat on 3 different campaigns(?) and was awarded a Purple Heart, a CIB with a star over it (I always thought that meant he was in combat in 2 different wars...WWII and Korea...he served in both) and a Silver and Bronze star. I used to drill him all the time 45 years ago when I was a youngster because I wanted to know about "what Dad did in the Army". He once told me he was a runner and that's when he was wounded the 1st time...carrying a message. Would a "runner" hold a T-rank or maybe he had some other technical skill that I'm not aware of? Getting him to talk about his Army days was like talking to a wall. He'd always change the subject to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Dad died 17 years ago...his nickname was "The West Virginia Ridge Runner" and I heard some of his old Army buddies call him "Limey" which irritated him somewhat because he was from Scotland. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
MarkO, I can add some insight to the star on the CIB. Your correct, it does indicate a second award of the badge--he earned his first in WWII, and his second in Korea. Had he gone to Viet Nam and earned this award again, he would have two silver stars. Acording to the above post, aparently he had a job that didn't require supervisory authority for a period of time. I don't know if "runner" would fit, but it seems reasonable.
Thank you Sir...I just recently was given much of Dad's military belongings and I'm trying to piece everything together so my children will have it. Your input is very much appreciated.
Just a little remark: a Technical Sergeant is someting different than a Technician with three stripes and a T. See below. 1942 changes [TABLE="class: wikitable"] [TR] 1st Grade2nd Grade3rd Grade4th Grade5th Grade6th Grade7th Grade[/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]No Insignia[/TD] [/TR] [TR] Master SergeantFirst SergeantTechnical SergeantStaff SergeantTechnician Third GradeSergeantTechnician Fourth GradeCorporalTechnician Fifth GradePrivate First ClassPrivate[/TR] [TR] [TD]M/Sgt.[/TD] [TD]1st Sgt.[/TD] [TD]T/Sgt.[/TD] [TD]S/Sgt.[/TD] [TD]T/3.[/TD] [TD]Sgt.[/TD] [TD]T/4.[/TD] [TD]Cpl.[/TD] [TD]T/5.[/TD] [TD]Pfc.[/TD] [TD]Pvt.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
While this thread is nearly 2 years old, thanks for the update. See here for more data. .Second World War Era.
T/4 is a specialst rank f.i. medic / radio operator. T/4 was equalivent to Cpl in pay not as in commanding.
As to being a T Sgt and having a CIB, combat arms units have many people assigned (communications, intelligence, logistics, personnel, etc) who would often be engaged in combat. Armor, Artillery and Engineers also, I believe, used the “T” ranks and were, of course, engaged in combat. So I would guess a lot of T Sgt’s have CIB’s, I know a lot of Specialist had them from Viet Nam. The Specialist Rank was a good idea at the time it was instituted. Even though we had a draft the Army needed to keep as many experienced men as possible and a system of advancing them in “technical” fields, and the accompanying pay increase, seemed to be a solution. The problem was that Officers and Sr. NCO’s saw little distinction between a Sergeant E-5(Sgt) and a Specialist E-5 (Sp5). While, as applevalleyjoe stated, Specialist technically did not have “line authority over troops” in the technical fields they were routinely in charge of squads and sections; and, at times, I saw Sp5’s act as Plt Sgt’s. In all instances outside of combat, a Sp5 was suppose to have the same authority as a Sgt. I can speak for my field for the first 6 years of my career, Topographic Engineers (TOPO). In our units there were no authorized Sgt positions outside of the Supply Sgt’s, our Map Depots (which came under the Logistics field), and Battalion Staff (Personal and Logistics). In the “Technical” jobs (Cartography, Map Reproduction, Terrain Analysis, etc) Sp 5’s were in mid level leadership positions. Units would often make men “acting” Sgt’s, especially if they were on a promotion list. In my TOPO unit in Viet Nam (and in all TOPO units I served with) Sp5’s and Sgt’s had the same extra duties, Sgt of the Guard, Charge of Quarters, etc. Yet they couldn’t use the NCO Club. The Sr NCO of the regional Map Depot (part of our unit) was a Sp7. Out unit policy was at the end of a tour Officers and NCO’s would be awarded a Bronze Star and the other Enlisted men would receive an Army Commendation Medal. This Sp7 was not eligible for a Bronze Star while out Supply Sgt (who had less than 2 years in the service) was. This policy caused a lot of friction. TOPO was a relatively small field and promotions were very limited, Sp5’s with many years of service was the norm and awards counted towards promotion. It was also hard to justify a man doing an NCO’s job and not receiving an NCO’s privileges. In the early 70’s the Army had a “Stripes for Skills” enlistment program. It was meant to entice qualified tradesmen to enlist in some technical fields. If you could document so many years of experience in a job the Army would make you a Sp5 after Basic Training. This program didn’t last long. One example why is a 19 year old kid who came to our unit as a Sp5 after Basic. The guy absolutely didn’t know a thing about his field and after some investigation it was found that his father owned a business and given his son credit for working several years in it (which the kid hadn’t). Again men who had been working for years in the field couldn’t get promoted due to this guy holding the slot.
