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US Army Units use of captured German Artilley in Europe

Discussion in 'WWII Books & Publications' started by JCFalkenbergIII, Feb 25, 2008.

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  1. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    In the ETO the 79th Field Artillery Battalion (Provisional) was formed from personnel of the 79th and 179th Field Artillery Groups to fire captured German artillery pieces during the height of the ammunition shortage. Similarly, the 244th Field Artillery Battalion was temporarily equipped with a miscellany of captured German 88mm guns and 105mm and 150mm howitzers.

    http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/usarmy/oddities.aspx
    --

    Use of captured weapons during WW II

    WWII, one battalion of U.S. field artillery was armed for a time on with captured weapons. Here is some information on this unit.
    244th FIELD ARTILLERY BATTALION (August 1944 on)

    WEAPONS POOL

    88L56 AA Guns (German)
    105L28 Howitzers (German)
    150L30 Howitzers (German)
    155L16 Howitzers (French)

    The 244th arrived in France as a towed 155mm Gun Battalion, but was quickly converted over to a new status as a "Captured Weapons" battalion. To ease the shortfall in American artillery ammunition, the 244th was equipped with captured German Artillery. It was not used as Field Artillery per se, but was used to give additional artillery support for areas of the line in need of support which had captured German supplies on hand. Elements of it served around Metz for example during the siege of that town. From:

    http://www.wlhoward.com/id547.htm


    8 DECEMBER THROUGH 14 DECEMBER.

    At 1600 on 8 December Corps became operational as planned when the 345th Infantry, 87th Division, completed relief of the 5th Division in containing Fort Jeanne d'Arc, the only fort which had not by this time capitulated. At that time Corps assumed full responsibility in the Metz area, and in addition to the already attached units received the 244th. Field Artillery Battalion (minus Battery B) which was equipped with cap­tured enemy weapons; Battery B of the 558th Field Artillery Battalion; and the 16th and 30th Chasseur Battalions. These two French battalions were used for guard duty and the occupation of the already captured Metz forts. These new units, in addition to the previously attached 32d Antiaircraft Artillery Group, 8th Tank Destroyer Group, 11th Tank Destroyer Group, and 87th Infantry Division, completed the III Corps order of battle as of that time.

    http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/bulge/IIICorps/IIICorpsAARDec44.htm
     
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  2. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    I am always amazed that the US Army would be running low on artillery ammunition LOL.
     
  3. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    I seem to remember that a unit also used German 120mm mortars too. Ill have to check around.
     
  4. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Was there more captured German ammunition available for the German guns then there were US ammunition for the US guns? Does that mean there were quite a few ammo dumps or stocks captured?
     
  5. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    [​IMG]Any foreign weapon may be useful to troops seeking to better their tactical position, but weapons in which an enemy has a qualitative lead are especially valuable. Above is seen a common or garden variety of old German 88 being used by U.S. troops; below, a German 170-mm gun used by the British. [​IMG]
    An excellent example of such initiative took place during the recent war in Europe. General Patton's Third Army, faced in the fall and early winter of 1944 with a stringent ammunition shortage, refurbished and put into action serviceable items of captured artillery. On 2 November 1944, one corps—the XX—was employing 39 such pieces, classed as follows: four 76.2-mm Soviet guns, ten 88-mm German guns, eight 100-mm fortress guns, six 105-mm German howitzers, two 122-mm Soviet guns, six 150-mm German howitzers, and three 155-mm French howitzers. Up to that date, this corps had fired 30,920 rounds of ammunition weighing 660 tons and valued at $702,391. For the week ending on 29 October of that year, 80 percent of the artillery ammunition fired by the XX Corps had been captured from the Germans. One time-on-target mission fired on a German troop concentration at Amanvillers was executed by U.S. tank destroyers, 90-mm antiaircraft guns, 155-mm M1 howitzers, and by German 105-mm gun howitzers, German 88's, Soviet and French Schneider 155-mm howitzers. The Soviet weapons, and those of the French, had been seized from Allied forces earlier in the war, and had been recaptured by the Third Army.

    Lone Sentry: What Do You Know About Foreign Weapons (Intelligence Bulletin, March 1946, WWII)
     
  6. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    This is hilarious LOL.

    Any matériel that has been captured by U.S. forces is the property of the U.S. Army. In Italy, and again in France, Belgium, and Germany, the Nazis attempted to claim that the use of German weapons by Allied troops was illegal. The Germans—even the German G.I.—certainly knew better, for the German Army towards the end of the war resembled an arms museum, with small arms and every other type of weapon culled from every army in Europe. Arms and other matériel captured in combat have always, throughout history, become the acknowledged property of the conqueror, and may be used as he sees fit.
     
  7. scarface

    scarface Member

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  8. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    An earlier American perspective from the August 1926 Field Artillery journal:
    EXPERIENCES IN USE OF CAPTURED MATÉRIEL
    BY CAPTAIN PARKER G. TENNEY, F.A

    & this from the September '44 Edition:
    http://sill-www.army.mil/famag/1944/SEP_1944/SEP_1944_PAGES_641_642.pdf
    [​IMG]

    A little off-topic but a nice piece on British work with captured Italian Guns in Libya, and it is an American report:
    Italian 105/28 Field Howitzer, by Lt. Col. G.B. Jarrett. Ord.

    And some 'Battle Notes of Division Artillery on Luzon':
    I'm sure there's quite a bit more buried in there and would highly recommend a trawl of their fine online preservation of the magazine:
    FAMAG
    Not only on this specific subject, but generally, it's an excellent resource.

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  9. RAM

    RAM Member

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    Since early ages man has used equipment captured from their opponents!
    This is no big deal!

    Regards
    RAM
     
  10. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Thanks for the insightful imput.:rolleyes: .Did you read the original post? It was a big deal because of the ammunition shortage of 1944. It was so bad that the US had to use captured foreign artillery to make up for it. I happen to find it interesting and do a few others.
     
  11. RAM

    RAM Member

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    JEEZ! Hasn't that been the reason for using captured equipment at all times; shortage of weapons and ammo?
    I suggest you go back and make your history lessons all over again...:rolleyes:
    You haven't seen nothing yet...:eek:
    Regards
    RAM
     
  12. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Oh really?? Im well versed enough thank you very much. I suggest you check out the other threads I have made on the subject of captured equipment. And you can take that attitude with you. You had nothing useful to add and still appear not to. I suggest that you get to know someone more before making statements like that. Ignore.
     
  13. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    How interesting! Exactly what are your concrete views on this? Can you tell us more?
     
  14. RAM

    RAM Member

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    Sorry Mac! I have searched through your postings, and I don't consider them seriously!

    Regards
    RAM
     
  15. scarface

    scarface Member

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    MAC...???!!!???

    [​IMG]


    THIS should be interesting!​

    -whatever​

    -Lou​
     
  16. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    (singing)Oh, baby, baby, you aint seen nothing yet:D

    come mate if you don't like what is said, then don't read it. I for one agree with JCF, it is interesting when the one side uses the enemies equipment. Yes it has be very well known that captured epuipment has been used and employed all throughout history, however this is a ww2 forum and in particular threatres of ww2 not 'the history of captured equipment'.

    So again if you don't like it and don't agree fine, we don't really care because we do;)

    Oh and thankyou JCF for posting this I love reading the interesting facts you post:)
     
  17. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    That's alright, I'm only the 6th top poster and 4th in reputation in this forum, what am I compared to a 12-post in 4 months newbie? :rofl:

    [​IMG]



    Bu anyway we are still waiting for your positive contribution to this thread? Do you have any?
     
  18. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Thanks guys :). It's nice to be well thought of here :). Im glad that some here are interested in all aspects of WWII History. But lets keep it on track here. I dont want this thread closed because of one person.
     
  19. RAM

    RAM Member

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    To me this sound like you are THE #1 Bullshiter.
    Don't you think there are other Forums on the WWII topic?
    Do the number of posts reveal your knowledge of the topic?

    Show me your contribution to the Forum regarding WWII and I will change my opinon....:D

    You don't even have the guts to reveal your whereabouts, and you're in a WWII Forum where bravery is an essential matter...:cool:
    Regards
    RAM
     
  20. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Please take it somewhere else Ram.
     
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