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US Civil War - First Industrial war or last Napoleonic War?

Discussion in 'Military History' started by Mahross, Nov 21, 2003.

  1. Mahross

    Mahross Ace

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    Just reading Paddy Griffith's Battle Tactics of the American Civil War. In this he suggests that the war was the last napoleonic war rather than the first industrial war. I see he point in terms of battlefield tactics but in terms of strategy and the strategic use of railways for example i'm not sure about his arguement. what does anyone think?
     
  2. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    I'm not a Civil War scholar but I've always thought of it as more of a 'mechanised' war than Napoleonic. Obviously it took place in a transitional period but I think it was the first major conflict to make , as you've said, considerable use of railways, ironclad ships ( and turret-equipped ones at that ), breech-loading artillery, telegraphy and, above all and the biggest tactical revolution - the rifled bullet.
     
  3. Mahross

    Mahross Ace

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    Martin actually just ahd him give a guest lecture on the subject. He quite vehemently denies that the rifled musket is not that great a revolution and actually the breech loaders is a greater revolution. I have to say in terms of tactics i agree with him. Much of what the americans did was born out of napoleonic thought. though on a strategic level, the use of steam, both in railways and on the rivers was a first step to medern industrialised war. Also the development of a general staff system in both the north and south to control the vast armies is indicative of industrialsed war.
     
  4. AndyW

    AndyW Member

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    From an Operational POV, it was the first war where another dramatic increase of the (anyway since ever existing) strength of the defending side over the attacking side happened. Just look at Cold Harbor. The trend was that the costs of attacks were worth the result. The climax of this development was the trench warfare of WW I, of course.

    Cheers,
     
  5. Mahross

    Mahross Ace

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    But tenches had been used in the napoleonic period. look at the battle of new orleans in 1815. therefore, this was nothing new. It was a lack of decisiveness.
     
  6. KnightMove

    KnightMove Ace

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    Definitely the US Civil War was a cornerstone of war history, but why "last Napoleonic War"? In fact, Napoleon's style of war was revolutionary, but was enhanced quickly. There was no period of this style of war.
     
  7. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Mahross, that's an interesting point about rifled vs breechloading. The reason for the step-change I had always thought to be the fact that the rifled bullet, with its' far greater effective range than that of the smoothbore musket, meant that battlefield soldiers could not get to grips with each other easily ?

    Breechloading led to quicker reloading and faster firing capability, but without rifling you'd still have to be physically close to your enemy to be effective, surely ?
     
  8. Carl G. E. von Mannerheim

    Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Ace

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    Imho,

    the American Civil War:


    Was both the last Napoleonic AND the first industrial war.

    From July 1861 (Battle of First Manassas) to July 1863 (Battle of Gettysburg) Napoleonic Tactics were widely used on both sides.


    However following Gettysburg, the war gradually went from a Napoleonic one to an industrial one. Slowly but surely long battle lines gave way to small unit actions (Battle of the Wilderness 1864)

    Until the seige of Petersburg, where the war basically became, a trench war. Not unlike the one which developed after the Battle of the Marne in 1914.

    Each side occupied its long, long trench line, with a no-mans land between the two lines.

    At certain points a long the lines, there would be special strong points.

    So, The ACW was both the last napoleonic and the first industrial war.


    CvM
     
  9. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    And then of course there was the 'Petersburg crater', another link to WW1 with its' mine warfare.
     
  10. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    The US Civil War was always cited for having the first Industrial Revolution (at least thats what they used to teach in school)

    Petersburg is the greatest example for the "ideas" of trench warfare even though they were used in other wars on a limited basis.

    The Battle of New Orleans was not fought in trenches, they built a line of defence by usling logs, cotton bales, abatis, gabions etc etc. Well, in a way it was trench warfare, as gabions and abatis made above ground "trenches."
     
  11. No.9

    No.9 Ace

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    I make you right there Carl. If you start delving for odd examples of tactics and strategy throughout history, you can find odd examples as, technology apart, many aspects have not changed that much.

    I find the view that the American Civil War was the first true ‘modern war’ highly substantiated. Many aspects were true embryos of things to come. Without stretching the imagination, several aspects such as the iron clad with a single rotating gun turret – really in its day the equivalent of ‘rocket science’, the cartridge round fed by magazine or hopper to a machine gun, use of aerial observation via balloons, being some. OK, the ship and the machine gun were flawed but they were used and changed warfare thereafter. The machine gun certainly sealed the fate of the cavalry! Similarly I see a difference between examples of trenches being used and ‘trench warfare’.

    No.9
     
  12. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Thanks Mate ;)
     
  13. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Patrick's right. It was BOTH, the last napoleonic war and the first industrial one.

    But more than the tactical levels (formations, muskets, rifles, balloons, trenches, cavalry, trenches, etc.) we must look first at strategies. During the first years of the war it was a matter of choosing a battle field and winning battles and occupying territories. The last stage of the war was about compromising the whole power of the nation in producing war materials and developing new technologies, with the obvious result of the more industrialised and technologically advanced winning.
     
  14. No.9

    No.9 Ace

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    I don’t know about you Freddy, but something I associate with Napoleonic warfare is its continued employment (at times) of musketeers forming up in the open to engage the enemy similarly deployed. OK, the length of the weapon and its muzzle loading nature suggests this deployment for efficient operation, and there was the honourable protocol of battle, but though this still persisted in the ACW, there was much to re-write the book in this respect and advance infantry deployment thinking.

    No.9
     
  15. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Indeed, nine, you're right. The ACW is precisely the turning point of XIX century warfare tactics - also the Crimean war - confirming one of the rules of military History; how the last stages of a war are fought is the way the first stages of the next war is going to be fought. This applies to Napoleonic wars and the ACW, the ACW with WWI, WWI with WWII and WWII and the cold war...
     

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